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hisham
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 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:44 am Post subject: |
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Acceleration is something that was gleaned over by the RPGs. But I see their point in doing so. Try running a chase where you have to calculate the location of ships using from their current speed which is further derived from their delta-v in 3D space, involving 2 ISD, 4 Dreadnaughts, 2 squadrons of TIEs trying to box in one light frieghter and its X-Wing escort!
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Don't send that idea to GURPS, they'll use it.
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hisham
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Don't send that idea to GURPS, they'll use it. |
Yeah, I don't have two days to run a what'll amount to a 4 round encounter. 
Also, X-Wing acceleration is crazy awesome. It covers the arc distance from Massassi Base around Yavin (a gas giant) to the Death Star in minutes if not seconds. They take off, then we hear the 15 minutes to line-of-sight position. Some time later after we see a lot of battle, we hear the 5 minute mark - before Red Leader's run!
And it takes us three days to go from the Earth to the moon.
Try statting that delta-v!
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Being it math nerd, it's always kinda bothered me that acceleration is based merely on max speed, but like previously stated, how complex do you want your game to be? I might come up with something that tries to balance simplicity with realism, but that's not high on my priority list so don't expect that soon.
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Grimace
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Well, wouldn't it be relatively easy (simplistic) to simply put a number in brackets to signify the maximum acceleration of the ship each round? So an X-wing could have a [6] or something while a Star Destroyer has a [2]. So while the Star Destroyer could eventually get up and boogie, it would take it a few rounds to get there. And an X-wing would take far less to be at maximum speed, thus reflecting a greater accelertion.
Yeah, yeah...I know...not official, but it's a thought if someone really wanted to deal with this. |
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| Grimace wrote: | Well, wouldn't it be relatively easy (simplistic) to simply put a number in brackets to signify the maximum acceleration of the ship each round? So an X-wing could have a [6] or something while a Star Destroyer has a [2]. So while the Star Destroyer could eventually get up and boogie, it would take it a few rounds to get there. And an X-wing would take far less to be at maximum speed, thus reflecting a greater accelertion.
Yeah, yeah...I know...not official, but it's a thought if someone really wanted to deal with this. |
This is pretty reasonable, and I may borrow it for another system I'm working on... possibly for future SW games too. But, I rarely really do space combat anyway 
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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there is only one problem...there is no max speed in space (not counting the speed of light). So unless the xwing runs out of power the ISD will never catch up.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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There's also no Force in space, so we're really going to have to just decide how much realism we do or don't want. There's really no such thing as being completely realistic in a roleplaying game. If we wanted complete realism we'd just do homework or taxes or something.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | there is only one problem...there is no max speed in space (not counting the speed of light). So unless the xwing runs out of power the ISD will never catch up. |
I fail to see the problem with that. However, with a 'flying start' they would be able to at least temporarily threaten any faster ships. |
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | there is only one problem...there is no max speed in space (not counting the speed of light). So unless the xwing runs out of power the ISD will never catch up. |
I fail to see the problem with that. However, with a 'flying start' they would be able to at least temporarily threaten any faster ships. |
It's only a problem if you want x-wings have a better acceleration than ISD's and still want the ISD be able to catch up with the x-wing...somehow.
To me it's not a problem since I don't think an ISD should be able to catch a fighter.
And regarding the realism...thats really not the point here. You could play with reverse gravity in your games or have starships make cool sound in space. To me this discussion is about viable game mechanics that have as much as possible of logic to them.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Random Numbers wrote: | | there is only one problem...there is no max speed in space (not counting the speed of light). So unless the xwing runs out of power the ISD will never catch up. |
Right, if the ships are flying through open space in a strait line. I interpreted the Space speed stat to also incorporate a level of combat maneuverability as well. The Maneuverability stat does help with movement rolls to overcome "terrain" and it also helps to evade attacks. But Space speed helps catching up with enemies while attacking them or getting away from enemies while they are attacking you. And combat involves a lot of twisting and turning while moving your ship - thus not in a strait line. So there are a lot of little accelerations and decelerations in combat during each move action. Think about it, the Space stat is not normally going to be used in the game except for combat. If you're just flying in a strait line somewhere not during combat, the GM is just going to tell you how long it takes to get there or how far you get before something happens.
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Grimace
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Want to know how the Star Destroyer catches the X-wing? It launches TIE fighters. Fighter on fighter is perfect, and TIEs are faster so they can catch that X-Wing.
If, for some strange reason the Star Destroyer doesn't want to launch fighters, then it's got this nice other feature called long range weapons that it can use to reach out and touch that X-Wing. Ion cannons with a range of 50 and turbolasers with a range of 75 significantly extend the reach of the Star Destroyer beyond what it's speed can do. That's 3 times the distance of that X-Wings lasers! That's also the equivalent of the X-Wing going ALL OUT for two full rounds and still being IN range of the turbolasers! With the Star Destroyer not even moving!
Yeah, I know, capital scale weapons against a starfighter aren't the best odds, but 20 ion cannons all shooting at the X-Wing are gonna get lucky in one of those two rounds, then that X-wing isn't moving at all and the Star Destroyer can go out and pick it up at a more leisurely pace.
Also, like Random Numbers mentioned, a Star Destroyer shouldn't be able to catch an X-wing anyway. But it should be able to be a serious threat for any ship that goes 5 or 6 and even give speed 7 craft a few anxious moments. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Its not actually the speed I find a bit weird, its the acceleration. High speed, given a long enough period of thrust in vacuum, can be achieved by even large ships with weak thrusters. However, accelerating all that mass as fast as a small ship takes a huge amount of power (end engines).
One also has to look to what purpose the ship has. With all those TIEs present, is there a reason to have a massive increase in ship cost just to be able to keep up with small ships? |
But if you look at many of the bigger ships, they have a LOT of engine power. So i can easily see them accelerating up to speed.
Perhaps a rule could be made for vehicles that the higher one on the Opposed MVr roll gets to accel faster than the other.
| Quote: | | I wonder what the top speed on an aircraft carrier is. I know that's classified, but from what I hear, those things can REALLY move. Granted, I'm guessing that a speed boat would have better acceleration. |
Which one you on about. I know when i was on the Kennedy and USS America (CV-65 CV-66) that we could push upward of 47 knots with all 4 screws going.
| Quote: | | Well, wouldn't it be relatively easy (simplistic) to simply put a number in brackets to signify the maximum acceleration of the ship each round? So an X-wing could have a [6] or something while a Star Destroyer has a [2]. So while the Star Destroyer could eventually get up and boogie, it would take it a few rounds to get there. And an X-wing would take far less to be at maximum speed, thus reflecting a greater accelertion. |
That could work.
So lets look at the fighters.
A wing has a max of 11, so would a 4 be a good max accel/round for it?
| Quote: | | Yeah, I know, capital scale weapons against a starfighter aren't the best odds, but 20 ion cannons all shooting at the X-Wing are gonna get lucky in one of those two rounds, then that X-wing isn't moving at all and the Star Destroyer can go out and pick it up at a more leisurely pace. |
That's why god invented combined fire.
ANd if that X wing is going all out, he won't be getting a dodge roll!
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Great discussion here guys.
| garhkal wrote: | So lets look at the fighters.
A wing has a max of 11, so would a 4 be a good max accel/round for it? |
A-Wings have 12. TIE Intercetors have 11. Just sayin'.
So Grimace, how exactly would your suggested option work in relation to the RAW in which acceleration or decceleration is one speed level per round? I mean, how would this work in relation to the RAW benchmarks of 1/2 move, 1 move, 2 moves and 4 moves (cautious, cruising, high and all-out speed)? Wouldn't your suggestion mean that ships' speed would often fall in between speed levels? Would you just "round up" for determining difficulty for the move actions?
Grimace, I'm always interested in your game mechanics ideas. Please tell us more. 8)
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Grimace
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, I was just spit-ballin' with the acceleration idea. I'd have to sit down and crunch some numbers to figure out how it would work with RAW.
I'm sure I could figure something, just not off the top of my head. Perhaps someone else can figure it out.  |
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