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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10861
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred |
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Disney is not saying the entire Star Wars fanbase is toxic. (No one is saying that all toxic fans are racists or that all racists are toxic about it.) Toxic fandom is not a problem unique to Star Wars. There are just a lot of toxic people in the world in general, so in any large enough sample size (e.g. Star Wars fans), there is going to be a percentage of toxic people in that group. It is a small minority of fans who are the real problem in the fandom.
| Quote: | | Some fans instantly get defensive when the racism and hatred corners of the fandom are even brought up (they doth protest too much, methinks)... Truly moral, empathic people would be horrified to learn about the treatment other humans are getting, treatment that has nothing to do with the writing or even actor performances. |
Below were Lucasfilm's specific comments after Ingram spoke out publicly in resistance to the hateful, racist harassment she had been receiving since the show started...
It's been pointed out to me that a corner of the Star Wars fandom takes offense at these tweets, claiming that these are bashing all fans. I've seen it being spread that Lucasfilm is saying all legitimate non-racist criticism of the OBK show itself is really racially motivated. Lucasfilm hasn't actually addressed any criticisms of the show that I have seen. I am a part of all fans. I am not in the slightest bit offended by these tweets, and the reason is simply that these statements are clearly not directed to all fans. The main tweet clearly indicates it is only directed towards anyone making the actor "feel in any way unwelcome," which is an extremely gentle euphemism for the vile hate speech she has been subjected to. The second one effectively advises to not choose to be racist. That is clearly directed only at those who choose racism. If you aren't a racist Star Wars fan, then these tweets do not apply to you. If you take offense to these statements, that says a lot more about you than Disney and Lucasfilm. If you feel you are not racist but get called a racist a lot in your life so this is a sensitive topic for you, then maybe you should take a good look in the mirror and examine why that keeps happening to you. And if media outlets are running with stories about how toxic all Star Wars supposedly are, they are just as prejudice as the haters. Not all fans are toxic, and Lucasfilm is not responsible for others warping the facts of their statements.
I noticed that Lucasfilm doesn't ever take the lead on these things. Lucasfilm is very reactive to problems in the fan base, and it makes business sense to not be too proactive. Fans are customers and Lucasfilm is selling a brand with many products. They would prefer that none of their customers are viewed as toxic, for fear of scaring off other customers who don't want to be associated with them. It seems to me that the problem of toxic fandom is officially ignored for the most part. Lucasfilm mostly only ever says something supportive after an actor rightfully speaks out against harassment from fans. Disney would likely rather everyone pretend there is no toxicity in the fandom, so they can keep selling their products to anyone who will buy them. Toxic fandom can be bad PR for any franchise and bad PR can affect sales, so they are not going to go around attacking their paying customers and making it worse. They are going to say the right thing only when they really have to. It seems to me that Disney often tries to protect their most precious customers, those blind faith customers with low standards that just love everything "Star Wars." It's like Disney doesn't want to upset their naive worldview that there is anything wrong with some Star Wars fans.
I've also been made aware that a corner of the fandom is pushing the absurd conspiracy theory that Lucasfilm is completely manufacturing the racist harassment drama to distract fans from the legitimate content criticisms about the OBK show itself. They say it is all a hoax, that a new black women SW actor on the show really hasn't gotten a single unwanted racist message because no Star Wars fans are racist. First of all, this is a pathetic attempt to dismiss the problem of racism, like the revisionist history lying that the American Civil War wasn't at its heart about slavery. Secondly, this hasn't in the slightest bit distracted from all the non-racist criticism of the show. I have observed that each week, fan criticisms of the show's content have only grown in number and severity, not minimized in anyway. Most of the criticism has nothing to do with Reva or her actor. Disney clearly has little impact on the narratives. The conspiracy theory that toxic racist harassment doesn't actually exist in Star Wars fandom is pure bantha poodoo, and you are a fool if you believe that.
The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred, and it will continue to do so. This is an official stance of the Rancor Pit, as indicated by the forum guidelines and the phpBB registration agreement. You are free to think and feel however you want. If you don't want to feel you are being called out, then keep any hatred and its apologetic propaganda to yourself. It's that simple. Thank you.
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FVBonura
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Joined: 24 Nov 2005
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Location: Central PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2026 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I was waiting for my pizza to cook and I decided to read this thread. I myself am a freedom of speech absolutist. Feel free to criticize me or mock me, you’re entitled to your opinion and if I think your observations are valid, I’ll correct my work. I do not fear, criticism or mockery. I’m bigger than that.
There is one thing that I am interested in, a precise definition of the word “hatred“ such that it can be observed in this forum.
Be well.
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shootingwomprats
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Joined: 11 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2026 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred |
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| Whill wrote: | | The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred, and it will continue to do so. This is an official stance of the Rancor Pit, as indicated by the forum guidelines and the phpBB registration agreement. You are free to think and feel however you want. If you don't want to feel you are being called out, then keep any hatred and its apologetic propaganda to yourself. It's that simple. Thank you. |
Have I missed something important? In the time I have been a part of RP up to this very post, I am not aware of hatred posts on the Forum. Again, have I missed something critical?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2026 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| FVBonura wrote: | I was waiting for my pizza to cook and I decided to read this thread. I myself am a freedom of speech absolutist. Feel free to criticize me or mock me, you’re entitled to your opinion and if I think your observations are valid, I’ll correct my work. I do not fear, criticism or mockery. I’m bigger than that.
There is one thing that I am interested in, a precise definition of the word “hatred“ such that it can be observed in this forum.
Be well. |
That is something i always wonder, regarding hate speech/hate crimes..
WHO Defines what it is? How?
Case and point;
Several years back, i had a person IRL, who said i was committing a hate crime, because i simply said i DISLIKE the NBA/WNBA/NFL etc.. because to HIM, since most of the participants in those sports, are majority black, i must 'therefore be racist'.
Even though i tried to clarify "I care not for those sports. UFC, EPL soccer, that's what i like (and a large chunk of those who play in the EPL, and UFC are also black), he still felt what i said was a hate crime..
I've heard similar, from folks who's kids are in college, where someone says they dislike this person, or that political policy. AND immediately get called for hate speech...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10861
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2026 2:47 am Post subject: Re: The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred, and it will continue to do so. This is an official stance of the Rancor Pit, as indicated by the forum guidelines and the phpBB registration agreement. You are free to think and feel however you want. If you don't want to feel you are being called out, then keep any hatred and its apologetic propaganda to yourself. It's that simple. Thank you. |
Have I missed something important? In the time I have been a part of RP up to this very post, I am not aware of hatred posts on the Forum. Again, have I missed something critical? |
Since you are asking this question, yes, it seems that you have missed something critical. You seem to have missed the text that you quoted, the posts linked therein, the greater post that the quoted text comes from, this entire thread, and possibly more. I just re-read the thread to see if edits for clarification were needed, but I found it to be quite self-explanatory. I'm grasping to come up with further explanation.
A female Vietnamese-American DT actor experienced an onslaught of racist and sexist harassment everywhere online. It got so bad that it even infested Wookieepedia and her character's entry was vandalized with hate speech. Later, a female black American Obi-Wan Kenobi actor experienced a similar onslaught of racist and sexist harassment. This disgusting hatred should have no place in Star Wars fandom. And even if they were horrible actors (which is subjective), they are still human beings who did nothing to deserve the hateful treatment they got from some fans.
Wookieepedia put out a call to all Star Wars community managers to denounce this negativity in the fandom, and the Rancor Pit answered this call. I posted in the OP that I was confident the Rancor Pit did not have any of the pathetic haters who participate in these hateful online practices, and there have been no policy changes at the Rancor Pit that resulted from posting this thread. Not acting this hateful way was always an expectation of the Forum Guidelines from day one, and it was always a part of PHP BB terms of use from the day this forum was created in 2003. This thread used to be an announcement, but I more recently added the Wookieepedia tagline into the forum guidelines with a link to this thread for additional context and I changed this thread back to a normal thread. But the expectation has never changed. Hateful behavior was never was acceptable here, it still isn't, and it never will be as long as I have anything to say about it.
This thread serves as a proactive warning for new (and longtime) users. There doesn't have to had been any big hate speech incident here to warrant this – Disgusting hatred exists in Star Wars fandom (and any large fandom). I personally have witnessed many expressions of hatred in SW fandom (and sadly, some even in our niche WEG RPG fandom), but not at this website. Many users (both active posters and lurkers) have expressed appreciation for my stewardship of this community in general and even for this thread specifically. They want to feel safe that they will not have to read hatred being expressed here. If anyone reading this thread finds it bothersome that there are threads stating "The Rancor Pit actively condemns hatred" here, they may want to look in the mirror and ask why that bothers them. Hatred is the Dark Side.
I hope this helps. Thank you.
| FVBonura wrote: | | There is one thing that I am interested in, a precise definition of the word “hatred“ |
Hmm. Are the images in the OP not visible to you? Wookieepedia wrote, "Hatred in this context means racism, sexism, harassment, and general toxicity." So that is the focus for this thread, but the forum guidelines and PHP BB terms include additional language.
| FVBonura wrote: | | I myself am a freedom of speech absolutist... There is one thing that I am interested in, a precise definition of the word “hatred“. |
I find that I am a bit disturbed to read that you are interested in a "precise" definition of hatred right after expressing a sentiment against speech restriction. Hatred should be broadly avoided here. Some people could read what you wrote and think you want precision to know exactly what kinds of hatred you can get away with expressing and to what degree. Let's not go down that path, please. Do not test the tolerance to bad behavior on this site. Self-moderate.
| FVBonura wrote: | | “hatred“ such that it can be observed in this forum. |
This is even more disturbing. You and everyone else should never want to observe this behavior on this forum (or anywhere). Wanting to observe it would be a really weird fetish that would seem to betray your wholesome purpose for coming here. Hate speech should be completely off topic for in-depth discussions of game rules, don't you think? Now I certainly do welcome you to keep your eyes open, and if you do happen to observe any racism, sexism, harassment, general toxicity, etc., then please notify me so I can address it asap.
Thank you.
| garhkal wrote: | That is something i always wonder, regarding hate speech/hate crimes..
WHO Defines what it is? How?
Case and point;
Several years back, i had a person IRL, who said i was committing a hate crime, because i simply said i DISLIKE the NBA/WNBA/NFL etc.. because to HIM, since most of the participants in those sports, are majority black, i must 'therefore be racist'.
Even though i tried to clarify "I care not for those sports. UFC, EPL soccer, that's what i like (and a large chunk of those who play in the EPL, and UFC are also black), he still felt what i said was a hate crime..
I've heard similar, from folks who's kids are in college, where someone says they dislike this person, or that political policy. AND immediately get called for hate speech... |
Oh, my. It can be defined in plain English. Here are some examples.
Statement 1: I dislike the character of Reva because of her nonsensical motivation to kill Luke to get revenge on his father who is an evil b@st@rd and doesn't know his son even exists anyway. [Not Racist]
Statement 2: I don't like Reva because she's a black woman. [Racist]
Statement 3: I don't like basketball and football. I like soccer. [Not Racist]
Statement 4: I don't like basketball and football because they have many black players. [Racist]
It's not a question of who defines it. The words used are what determines if it is hate speech or not. This should not be a big debate on this website. But if you ever see something here and you aren't sure if it is hate speech or not, then please point it out to me and I'll make a judgment.
Thank you.
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