| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
 |
|
If you're referring to the Stormtroopers aboard the Death Star shooting poorly, remember one thing: if they kill the rebels Darth doesn't get his tracker to show him where the rebel base is.
In essence, the Death Star let them go. They were ordered to funnel the rebels to their ship and not kill them.
Just as a thought: why does everyone want to play down the Stormtroopers after their performance in ANH, but TIE pilots are seen as aces. Both were inept in ANH for a reason, but TIE pilots get a complete pass while Stormies get dumped on and laughed at.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10500
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
But the TIE pilots don't seem to get much better, either.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here because I think Stormtroopers get a bad rap.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jmanski wrote: | If you're referring to the Stormtroopers aboard the Death Star shooting poorly, remember one thing: if they kill the rebels Darth doesn't get his tracker to show him where the rebel base is.
In essence, the Death Star let them go. They were ordered to funnel the rebels to their ship and not kill them.
Just as a thought: why does everyone want to play down the Stormtroopers after their performance in ANH, but TIE pilots are seen as aces. Both were inept in ANH for a reason, but TIE pilots get a complete pass while Stormies get dumped on and laughed at. |
The way I interpret the films is just that: as films.
In general, a fire fight in a film is replete with "misses." But in order to satisfy that need for "action" and "adventure" (that is, in order to put the protagonists in enough danger that the film is actually entertaining), we have to see them get shot at. Of course, if they get killed in the first fire fight, then you don't have a movie... just a tale of a sad statistic.
On the other hand, the heroes miss all the time, too. This also facilitates the longevity of the fire fight for the sake of building drama and tension while things elsewhere act as a ticking clock against which the heroes are racing. In other words, the fire fight serves as a story mechanism to impede the heroes' progress toward a goal, the achievement of which is faced with a closing window of opportunity. If the heroes were all crack shots, then that dramatic tension is lost, also.
Even in stories where the hero is a crack shot, the storyteller delays his ability to make the shot rather than causing him to miss over and over again. Either way, once the winning shot is fired, then the story can progress, but the drama must not be a casualty of "realism," but instead should use some degree of realism in order to develop and support the drama (when disbelief cannot be suspended, the audience can no longer relate to the hero, and so dramatic value is lost in the face of a complete lack of realism or verisimilitude).
Lastly, I've never heard of the TIE fighters being considered "aces." I've always heard of and seen/interpreted the entire imperial military as disposable up to the threshold of the imperial royal guard, who, are also ultimately disposable, at the end of the day.
And, in case I wasn't clear before: a person who sucks at shooting (can't hit what they're trying to hit) will also suck at suppressing. Suppressing fire is of zero value if there is no threat of being shot. The targets being suppressed MUST believe that they are going to die if they break cover. I have been the "target" (I use the term very loosely) of "spray and pray" fire a few times, and in no case did I (or the others I was with) believe that we were in imminent danger of being shot. Was it possible? Sure, we could have been hit by a random bullet. But for the hundreds that were fired, not one even "zipped by" close enough for us to think "they're shooting at us." The spray and pray--under the circumstances--did nothing to impede our movements or even force us to adapt. It is the opposite of what we call "effective fire." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WillTasker
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Posts: 115
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | | Lastly, I've never heard of the TIE fighters being considered "aces." I've always heard of and seen/interpreted the entire imperial military as disposable up to the threshold of the imperial royal guard, who, are also ultimately disposable, at the end of the day. |
I'm running on no coffee today, so my brain ain't working right - but if IIRC, "Lost Stars" actually has a bit of dialogue about how TIE pilots are really good pilots solely because the fighters are nothing more than an engine and stripped of any excess weight / safety equipment.
That said, yes, without shields or an ejection system or anything remotely helpful to the pilot, flying one would be borderline suicidal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | If you're referring to the Stormtroopers aboard the Death Star shooting poorly, remember one thing: if they kill the rebels Darth doesn't get his tracker to show him where the rebel base is.
In essence, the Death Star let them go. They were ordered to funnel the rebels to their ship and not kill them.
Just as a thought: why does everyone want to play down the Stormtroopers after their performance in ANH, but TIE pilots are seen as aces. Both were inept in ANH for a reason, but TIE pilots get a complete pass while Stormies get dumped on and laughed at. |
The way I interpret the films is just that: as films.
In general, a fire fight in a film is replete with "misses." But in order to satisfy that need for "action" and "adventure" (that is, in order to put the protagonists in enough danger that the film is actually entertaining), we have to see them get shot at. Of course, if they get killed in the first fire fight, then you don't have a movie... just a tale of a sad statistic.
On the other hand, the heroes miss all the time, too. This also facilitates the longevity of the fire fight for the sake of building drama and tension while things elsewhere act as a ticking clock against which the heroes are racing. In other words, the fire fight serves as a story mechanism to impede the heroes' progress toward a goal, the achievement of which is faced with a closing window of opportunity. If the heroes were all crack shots, then that dramatic tension is lost, also.
Even in stories where the hero is a crack shot, the storyteller delays his ability to make the shot rather than causing him to miss over and over again. Either way, once the winning shot is fired, then the story can progress, but the drama must not be a casualty of "realism," but instead should use some degree of realism in order to develop and support the drama (when disbelief cannot be suspended, the audience can no longer relate to the hero, and so dramatic value is lost in the face of a complete lack of realism or verisimilitude).
Lastly, I've never heard of the TIE fighters being considered "aces." I've always heard of and seen/interpreted the entire imperial military as disposable up to the threshold of the imperial royal guard, who, are also ultimately disposable, at the end of the day.
And, in case I wasn't clear before: a person who sucks at shooting (can't hit what they're trying to hit) will also suck at suppressing. Suppressing fire is of zero value if there is no threat of being shot. The targets being suppressed MUST believe that they are going to die if they break cover. I have been the "target" (I use the term very loosely) of "spray and pray" fire a few times, and in no case did I (or the others I was with) believe that we were in imminent danger of being shot. Was it possible? Sure, we could have been hit by a random bullet. But for the hundreds that were fired, not one even "zipped by" close enough for us to think "they're shooting at us." The spray and pray--under the circumstances--did nothing to impede our movements or even force us to adapt. It is the opposite of what we call "effective fire." |
I don't recall the TIE pilot references, I think they were mostly books (probably Zahn and the X-Wing series).
And I completely agree with your last statement: if you can't shoot you can't supress.
I appreciate the thought on cinema, I'm usually one to argue for cinema over realism in-game but for some reason that slipped past me this time.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gotta keep things in perspective, right?. Thumbs up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
