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OuttaWindu
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 109
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: Rate of Fire |
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| Grimace wrote: | Yeah, I've never used the ROF rules as written in the Star Wars book. They didn't make much sense, so I tossed them out.
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This is a sentiment I've encountered to some extent, and in the game I'm in we don't use them at all.
BUT, I felt the Rate of Fire(ROF) rules could be used, but as the stats of weapons in R&E and especially REUP exists now, it doesn't make sense thanks to all usual blasters either have ROF of 1 or unlimited, but nothing in between.
My suggestion is something among these lines:
Bowcaster ROF: 1
Blaster pistols ROF: 1-2
Blaster ROF: 2-4
Heavy blaster ROF: 1-2
Repeating blaster ROF: 1-2 + (however the repeating part would be counted)
Heavy Rep. blaster ROF: 1 + (however the repeating part would be counted)
Melee weapons ROF: N/A (no restrictions on most melee weapons)
Detonators (default setting) ROF 1 (essentially this would mean default timer is around 4-5 sec, so if you throw several without shortening the detonation time in advance others have their turn in addition to their reaction to move away from the blast)
If the ROF are statted in a good way, dual wielding could have an mechanical difference.
Two pistols with ROF 2 would allow you 4 attacks in a turn where a stronger and only slightly faster ROF 3 would only result in max 3 attacks a turn, so you'd end up with a choice between more shots fired or stronger shots. I haven't entirely figured out what different weapons ROF should be, but I might think more about this during the summer.
Any thoughts? Are there some weapon compendiums with ROFs changed or updated that I missed? |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:49 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about official stuff, but I'd encourage you to come up with your own ROF rules.
Another consideration could be to make ROF a MAP reducer instead of a shots-per-turn limiter. For example, most weapons would have ROF 1 while repeaters might have ROF 2 or 3 or 4 allowing that many "shots" to be fired per MAP. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:26 am Post subject: |
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My feel was always that RoF - especially if a weapon didn't have one listed - represented a semi-auto weapon, where the rate of fire was heavily dependent on the skill level of the shooter. Someone like Jerry Miculek can get an incredibly high RoF out of semi-automatic weapons just on technique and natural talent.
If you intend to place a hard limit on RoF for weapons, IMO, this best applies if there is a technical reason why it must be that low, such as the weapon itself needing to recharge its capacitors or cool down before it can be fired again. Placing a hard RoF of 1 on something like the Bowcaster is unfair because it penalizes high-end characters who may be able to cycle their weapon faster than a "normal" person would.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree. I have designed weapons that have a rate of fire tied to a character's dex or str attribute in order to simulate something like a manually cycled weapon or an obnoxiously intense recoil impulse (for example). |
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OuttaWindu
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: |
Another consideration could be to make ROF a MAP reducer instead of a shots-per-turn limiter. For example, most weapons would have ROF 1 while repeaters might have ROF 2 or 3 or 4 allowing that many "shots" to be fired per MAP
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That's a good idea, and indeed before I can decide on new ROF for weapons I have to wrap my head around how the reapeating balsters burst fire should be counted with this system, where my thought atm is to ROF number of bust you could make. I think you can make normal shots with them, switch form full-auto to semi-auto?
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
My feel was always that RoF - especially if a weapon didn't have one listed ... where the rate of fire was heavily dependent on the skill level of the shooter
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As I understand the rules, that's exactly how it is. If no ROF is mentioned, it's unlimited.
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
Placing a hard RoF of 1 on something like the Bowcaster is unfair because it penalizes high-end characters who may be able to cycle their weapon faster than a "normal" person would. |
Bowcaster is one of the only weapons I agree should keep ROF 1, that both R&E and REUP have given it. The problem I see is that most weapons haves either 1 or infinite ROF, which makes for a uneven division.
| Naaman wrote: |
... I have designed weapons that have a rate of fire tied to a character's dex or str attribute in order to simulate something like a manually cycled weapon or an obnoxiously intense recoil impulse (for example).
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Yeah, that could be another option. Heavier weapons with recoil could be STR based and lighter pistols or similar could be DEX based. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1902
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I see there are people here thinkinng similarly to me here.
I resolved this very loosely actually, but in basics a rof 1 allows for +1 shot a round before the MAP.
If it is 2 or more then this is the number, often on repeaters, and heavy weapons, and vheicle ship weapons.
however if the player chooses to use his rof, he gets a +1 shot and thus +1D to damage, but the attack ( recoil) is at -10, theough a cp can negate the -10
in addition this can be used with the rules for MAP, with a -1D(-10) using the rof and map combined, again a cp can negate the -10, but in this case not add dice |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Bowcaster is one of the only weapons I agree should keep ROF 1, that both R&E and REUP have given it. The problem I see is that most weapons haves either 1 or infinite ROF, which makes for a uneven division. |
Okay, so why is the bow caster limited to a maximum of 1? If it is because of the cocking action required to reload it (a feature that never appears in the films, BTW), why wouldn’t a stronger or quicker Wookiee be able to work the action more quickly, and thus get off more than 1 shot per round?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1902
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | Bowcaster is one of the only weapons I agree should keep ROF 1, that both R&E and REUP have given it. The problem I see is that most weapons haves either 1 or infinite ROF, which makes for a uneven division. |
Okay, so why is the bow caster limited to a maximum of 1? If it is because of the cocking action required to reload it (a feature that never appears in the films, BTW), why wouldn’t a stronger or quicker Wookiee be able to work the action more quickly, and thus get off more than 1 shot per round? |
I would rule this as how the weapon is created, we never see it autofire, but I would agree a higher rof should be possible. |
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jmanski
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly enough, Chewie never cocks his bowcaster in the movies. Matter of factly, he fires it just like a blaster.
Personally I view the bowcaster as being completely unique for each Wookie, much like the lightsaber for each Jedi. Chewie's might be a simple blaster rifle with a bow-like attachment. Others might have a cocking mechanism that increases damage. To each his own.
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OuttaWindu
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: |
I would rule this as how the weapon is created, we never see it autofire, but I would agree a higher rof should be possible. |
Yeah this is more or less why I agree it's okay, but I haven't looked through everything to 100% decide one way or another.
My opinion of the bowcaster is colored by TFA scene where Han demonstrate how strongly it blows away the stormtrooper, and Jedi Knight- game series where it was displayed as a slower and stronger weapon compared to other similar weapons. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1902
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| OuttaWindu wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: |
I would rule this as how the weapon is created, we never see it autofire, but I would agree a higher rof should be possible. |
Yeah this is more or less why I agree it's okay, but I haven't looked through everything to 100% decide one way or another.
My opinion of the bowcaster is colored by TFA scene where Han demonstrate how strongly it blows away the stormtrooper, and Jedi Knight- game series where it was displayed as a slower and stronger weapon compared to other similar weapons. |
Though we never see the weapon being coked, or rather the string pulled, I assume this happens automatically, as well as the reload, so to me the rof makes all the sense in the world.
what we see in TFA is more a powerful explotion that a high rate of fire. ans thus I would rgue that is depending on the type of ammo used |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10500
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | Interestingly enough, Chewie never cocks his bowcaster in the movies. Matter of factly, he fires it just like a blaster.
Personally I view the bowcaster as being completely unique for each Wookie, much like the lightsaber for each Jedi. Chewie's might be a simple blaster rifle with a bow-like attachment. Others might have a cocking mechanism that increases damage. To each his own. |
I feel the same way. I have Bowcaster as an advanced skill. Wookiees teach that skill to each other and then they can use it to create their own bowcaster, so each bowcaster is a unique creation and they can vary greatly.
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Mamatried
Commodore
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Posts: 1902
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | Interestingly enough, Chewie never cocks his bowcaster in the movies. Matter of factly, he fires it just like a blaster.
Personally I view the bowcaster as being completely unique for each Wookie, much like the lightsaber for each Jedi. Chewie's might be a simple blaster rifle with a bow-like attachment. Others might have a cocking mechanism that increases damage. To each his own. |
I feel the same way. I have Bowcaster as an advanced skill. Wookiees teach that skill to each other and then they can use it to create their own bowcaster, so each bowcaster is a unique creation and they can vary greatly. |
Does this make bowcaster a non advanced skill for Wookies?
as in a regular skill |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Any discussion of bowcaster rate of fire should include the scene on Endor, where Chewie takes out a speeder bike with several shots in rapid succession. There is no way a video game showing a bowcaster firing slow overrules a film from the original trilogy that shows it firing fast.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | I feel the same way. I have Bowcaster as an advanced skill. Wookiees teach that skill to each other and then they can use it to create their own bowcaster, so each bowcaster is a unique creation and they can vary greatly. |
Does this make bowcaster a non advanced skill for Wookies?
as in a regular skill |
No. It is an advanced skill for everyone. But non-Wookiees are rarely ever going to know the skill because Wookiees don't teach it to non-Wookiees. But I guess the Guardians of the Whills had the skill too, until they all died.
Not all Wookiees even have the skill. Being an advanced skill, you have to have all the prerequisites. But that's just how I see it.
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