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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Meh... I guess we just interpret the empire differently. No biggie. |
True. If you don't mind my saying so, I'm moved to wonder to what degree your perspective on the responsibilities of law enforcement might possibly be affected by your own training. I apologize in advance if I am off-base here, but the idea of police having a responsibility to the citizenry is not a universal one even on our own planet, and is primarily an outgrowth of Western democratic principles. There are plenty of totalitarian societies, both past and present, where the police were little more than thugs and enforcers for the regime. The actions of those "police" forces almost always fomented rebellion against the regime in question, but then, isn't that exactly what is going on during the galactic civil war between the Empire and the Alliance?
IMO, I agree with you that a police force should have a responsibility to the citizens, including those arrested or incapacitated. That, however, is an ideal, and not all police forces live up to it.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Good point C.. you Do see it mostly in the western (More democratic like) countries where cops have a requirement to care for citizenry that are arrested. Compare that to even countries like Mexico, practically anywhere in Africa and most of Asia, cops seem (to me) to NOT have to worry about you.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | Meh... I guess we just interpret the empire differently. No biggie. |
True. If you don't mind my saying so, I'm moved to wonder to what degree your perspective on the responsibilities of law enforcement might possibly be affected by your own training. I apologize in advance if I am off-base here, but the idea of police having a responsibility to the citizenry is not a universal one even on our own planet, and is primarily an outgrowth of Western democratic principles. There are plenty of totalitarian societies, both past and present, where the police were little more than thugs and enforcers for the regime. The actions of those "police" forces almost always fomented rebellion against the regime in question, but then, isn't that exactly what is going on during the galactic civil war between the Empire and the Alliance?
IMO, I agree with you that a police force should have a responsibility to the citizens, including those arrested or incapacitated. That, however, is an ideal, and not all police forces live up to it. |
No worries. All of my posts aboutthis topic are, in fact based on my training/experience. So far as I can tell, protection is one of the "benenefits" provided by a government security force. Even if that protection is dubiously motivated. So, even if protection is offered as a means of extortion, there would/should be some incentive for the government to protect citizens. If you consider the corruption in our own government, the "people" are not directly exposed to it, so it becomes rumors and hearsay.
Also, one critical scene that shapes my opinion is the "thunderous applause" scene, as well as the scene where Palpatine says "we will have.... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... peace."
The idea is to coax the people into a sense of security... lull them to sleep and then keep them asleep while you rule the galaxy. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | No worries. All of my posts aboutthis topic are, in fact based on my training/experience. So far as I can tell, protection is one of the "benenefits" provided by a government security force. Even if that protection is dubiously motivated. So, even if protection is offered as a means of extortion, there would/should be some incentive for the government to protect citizens. If you consider the corruption in our own government, the "people" are not directly exposed to it, so it becomes rumors and hearsay. |
I can accept that that is the situation obtained in most of the Core Worlds, as well as some others. Or at least the illusion of it. The police in the streets would likely believe it themselves, but it would always be a very thin velvet glove over a very large iron fist. On alien Worlds, or on some of the more restive human Worlds, it would be a very different picture.
| Quote: | Also, one critical scene that shapes my opinion is the "thunderous applause" scene, as well as the scene where Palpatine says "we will have.... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... peace."
The idea is to coax the people into a sense of security... lull them to sleep and then keep them asleep while you rule the galaxy. |
He would hardly be the first politician to tell lies to get elected.
Anyway, in an attempt to steer this back on topic, no one has ever done stats for a riot gun, so we don't know what its capabilities are. It may be that it is far more effective at close range against multiple targets than a heavy repeater, which is why it is retained for less-than-lethal applications.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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As an aside, you would think that the Espo Riot vehicles would be an ideal place to install heavy stun weaponry, but the one stun weapon found on the Strikebreaker or the Mobile Detention Wagon has a range of 200 meters. Typical WEG...
Edit: And it's on the Expo Walker...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Anyway, in an attempt to steer this back on topic, no one has ever done stats for a riot gun, so we don't know what its capabilities are. It may be that it is far more effective at close range against multiple targets than a heavy repeater, which is why it is retained for less-than-lethal applications. |
Well, there have been stats for "riot gun" done, but maybe not a heavy weaponry riot gun. The HSatCS Sourcebook p. 117 has a "Riot Gun" rifle with full stats (damage 5D+1) including an auto-fire mode.
"Riot Gun" goes back to 1e, and in the 2e SW Sourcebook on p. 100 its stats are Availability 2, R; Cost 750 credits; Damage 8D (specifically stun damage only); with no ranges listed or other stats, but it seems to be a rifle. That sets an WEG EU precedent for the possible existence of larger stun weapons. It would be cake to design a heavy weaponry riot gun if you wanted one in your game.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | Well, there have been stats for "riot gun" done, but maybe not a heavy weaponry riot gun. The HSatCS Sourcebook p. 117 has a "Riot Gun" rifle with full stats (damage 5D+1) including an auto-fire mode.
"Riot Gun" goes back to 1e, and in the 2e SW Sourcebook on p. 100 its stats are Availability 2, R; Cost 750 credits; Damage 8D (specifically stun damage only); with no ranges listed or other stats, but it seems to be a rifle. That sets an WEG EU precedent for the possible existence of larger stun weapons. It would be cake to design a heavy weaponry riot gun if you wanted one in your game. |
There is that. Brian Daley's Han Solo Trilogy predated 1E, so a lot of things he introduced were used by WEG to flesh out the universe, including the Z-95, the Victory-Class Star Destroyer, the Lady of Mindor, as well as the description of how a bowcaster works. Considering the fact that Espo Riot Blasters are described in multiple instances in the Han Solo Trilogy, I'm surprised how badly WEG fumbled the ball on them. And simultaneously not all that surprised, considering their track record...
So there are basically two different weapons under the same name. One is essentially a fully automatic blaster rifle, roughly analogous to, for example, a fully automatic AK-47 vs. a semi-auto/short-burst capable M16. The other is a tripod or vehicle mounted weapon roughly in the same size rating as an E-Web, save that instead of firing blaster bolts, it fires a cone of stun energy, most likely affecting multiple targets at a time, as well as having a high rate of fire (although this isn't explicitly stated).
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
Anyway, in an attempt to steer this back on topic, no one has ever done stats for a riot gun, so we don't know what its capabilities are. It may be that it is far more effective at close range against multiple targets than a heavy repeater, which is why it is retained for less-than-lethal applications. |
There are stats for the Espo riot gun in both the corporate sector book as well as Gry's weapon guide.
You also have the deck sweeper.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | There are stats for the Espo riot gun in both the corporate sector book as well as Gry's weapon guide.
You also have the deck sweeper. |
Neither of which are the heavy, tripod-mounted stun gun mentioned in the SW Sourcebook.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Medium repeaters and heavy E-web repeaters.. How long?? |
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| garhkal wrote: | For those of you who have had Imperial forces use either of these 2 weapon systems, how long have you made it take for the stormies to set it up (assuming they were not already in place)?
How often HAVE you had them show up in a game, and did they actually shoot anyone? |
I was looking though the ImpSB and came across a nice little tidbit on pages 122-123 that give some details about the EWeb.
According to both the actual description of the weapon and the sidebar text, the weapon is a lot different that the suggestions being tossed around in this thread.
It, per RAW, takes an "experience crew" 15 minutes (!) to set up, and it must be operated by a crew of two (per the side bar flavor text) or else most of the benefits of all the accessories (such as the generator/cooler, the fire control, etc) are lost. Not only that, but apparently, when being operated by one person, the accuracy goes way down (in addition to losing the fire control).
Another interesting point is that it comes with a built-in comm unit that allows the crew to "coordinate fire" with other EWeb crews in the event that the "command" channels go down. It's not clear whether the phrase "coordinate fire" refers to the type of coordination described in the command skill, or if it just means that multiple crews can keep in touch and time their burst to allow other crews to reload/clear malfunctions, etc. but since it is mentioned, and I would have assumed that troops would have ways to communicate with each other anyway, I'll assume that "coordinate fire" does, in fact, allow EWeb crews to enhance each other absent a commander (or, perhaps, at least one officer must have access to the comms belonging to one of the crews).
I'll assume that the 15 minutes required to set it up includes time required for the generator to warm up as well as pre-combat checks to be performed... but that takes it into "house rule/interpretation" territory. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Wow.. 15 min to get it up and running?
Wonder how long it would take then if the gennie was already up to 'speed' and had just been switched to standby for moving elsewhere.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I dont know. The description does point out that it can be carried/moved in its "ready" configuration, but that the practice is "not recommended." Beyond that, if I wanted to discourage players from doing that, Id probably require a roll to check to see whether they damage the weapon orinjure themselves (or both). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:32 am Post subject: |
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While we can't say for certain how long it takes to set up an E-Web in TESB, fifteen minutes seems awfully long considering how quickly they were up and firing. And we have seen more than once here that just because WEG says something doesn't necessarily make it true.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Pel
Line Captain
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | ...Id probably require a roll to check to see whether they damage the weapon orinjure themselves (or both). |
I think if you need that level of firepower and can't get it to work, it's probably time to fix vibrobayonets. That's punishment enough. 
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | While we can't say for certain how long it takes to set up an E-Web in TESB, fifteen minutes seems awfully long considering how quickly they were up and firing. And we have seen more than once here that just because WEG says something doesn't necessarily make it true. |
Well, movies have a way of distorting time. But even still I think this is another example of the authors having no actual knowledge of combat or military capabilities. |
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