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vong
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | vong wrote: | Cool, thats a very D&Desque way of doing things  |
I think in D&D you just start with languages based on your character's race. In my system, the species native languages not free, and must be "bought" as one of the language fluencies starting out. The only thing free is Basic, I guess like "Common" is the universal language in D&D that everyone knows. This way aliens do not automatically know more languages than humans do.
In the campaign I am currently working on, the remote outer rim sector that the campaign is based in has its "common tongue" as Bocce, not Basic. There are a minority of humans there and they all know Basic, but there are many more aliens there that do not know Basic. Most everyone in the sector knows Bocce to communicate with everyone else. Just for the fun of it. It would be very wise for the PCs to choose that as one of their languages.
"Tell Uncle, if he gets a translator makes sure it speaks Bocce." |
you get Common and your race's language. then you get a bonus Lagrange for each intelligence modifier you have (+1 is 1 extra etc)
Then you can spend 2 SP to learn a language after that
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | In character creation, my PCs all get a fluency in Basic for free, regardless of species. Then, each PC also gets one additional language fluency for every D of the Languages skill (or Knowledge). So a PC with only 2D in languages still starts with Basic and 2 other language fluencies, all indicated on his character sheet. |
| vong wrote: | | Cool, thats a very D&Desque way of doing things |
| vong wrote: | | you get Common and your race's language. then you get a bonus Lagrange for each intelligence modifier you have (+1 is 1 extra etc) |
vong, you seem to know more about D&D than I do. I actually got the idea from WEG Platt's Smuggler's Guide (1997). On p. 66, there is a word box about Selecting Contacts. It has a suggested guideline which states that for every die of streetwise, you get one contact.
I originally used that exact calculation for total starting language fluencies, and later decided that Basic is free and every die you have in languages gives you one additional language fluency. I assure you D&D had nothing to do with it. 8)
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Zarm R'keeg
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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So, how do you (any of you) handle things when a non-basic-speaker joins the group as a new player (thus, no one had a chance to take a fluency in it at character creation)? How do you handle the mechanics of a PC trying to communicate to other PCs in a different language? For me, this is a first-time scenario...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Have them all roll their languages skill each and every time said player speaks!
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | So, how do you (any of you) handle things when a non-basic-speaker joins the group as a new player (thus, no one had a chance to take a fluency in it at character creation)? How do you handle the mechanics of a PC trying to communicate to other PCs in a different language? For me, this is a first-time scenario... |
| garhkal wrote: | | Have them all roll their languages skill each and every time said player speaks! |
Yup. RAW addresses this with the Wookiee character template (R&E p. 283). But as I stated above, my PCs tend to know a lot of languages, so chances are at least one of the other PCs knows a language that another character can speak (in my game all PCs start out fluent in at least 3 languages). I hardly ever have PCs that play a character that's limited in languages it can speak (like a Wookiee), and I for sure have never had a one who came into a party late when none of the existing characters didn't already understand the language. But it could happen, so get a translator, have the other PCs make language rolls, play charades when they fail. Could make for some fun roleplaying, but eventually someone else will become fluent in the language, hopefully before it gets old.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I take it that 'fluency in 3 languages' is a HR you use? Is it dependent on their Language skill?
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Zarm R'keeg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Have them all roll their languages skill each and every time said player speaks! |
I did figure that. I guess what I'm driving at is... do you have the PC announce the complexity of the idea they're trying to communicate to set a difficulty level? Do they say/write down what they're going to say and you judge how much gets through? Do you have a flat 'you comprehend it at this level' difficulty level universally applicable to every communication attempt, regardless of what's being communicated? If they roll sufficient comprehension to get the gist, but not fully understand, how do you communicate that to the speaking player/how do they abide by that? Or, as the cited Wookie template suggests, do you just set a binary pass/fail with no in-between? And if so, again, is that variable difficult based on what is being said? And if so, who determines that difficulty/if the narrator sets it, how does he do so without knowing the content?
I've got the basic principles of handling language- I'm just trying to envision them in realistic practice.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Until i learn to trust them, I have the one who is speaking, write it down what they are wanting to say, and depending on how well BOTH speaker and listener(s) roll, depends on how much i give over.
Once they have proven themselves trustworthy, i let them handle it.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I take it that 'fluency in 3 languages' is a HR you use? Is it dependent on their Language skill? |
Yes, see above in this thread, but I may not have explained it well.
In my game, all PCs get Galactic Standard (I despise calling it Basic) as a free language fluency. In addition to that, PC gets a number of language fluencies equal to the # in front of the D of their Language skill, or Knowledge if they don't have Languages. In my game, I also have a PC minimum attribute rule of 2D. So, if a PC has the minimum 2D, or 2D+1 or 2D+2 in Languages, they start with Galactic Standard and two other language fluencies of their choice. 1+2=3. This is where the player would choose their PC's native language(s) and whatever else the player wants the character to know (in accordance with the PC's background). Even a human character that never travelled around the galaxy and spent his whole life before the campaign on Tatooine may choose the Jawa Trade language, Huttese or Bocci.
I also use the rule that gave me the idea for this, where PCs can start with a number of underworld contacts equal to the number in front of the PC's Streetwise skill, providing the players are willing to create them (Yes, I let players create some NPC contacts, but I usually collaborate with them).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:00 am Post subject: |
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So even if they don't have the language skill, and just 2d in Knowledge, they have 3 languages they are fluent in?? Strange.
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So even if they don't have the language skill, and just 2d in Knowledge, they have 3 languages they are fluent in?? Strange. |
Well, can have at least.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So even if they don't have the language skill, and just 2d in Knowledge, they have 3 languages they are fluent in?? Strange. |
It's just for PCs, a very teeny tiny % of the total population of the galaxy. There are no actual rules for starting language fluencies in RAW, and the common applications are very alien-centric. My Quarren PC should logically start with Quarren, Calamari and Basic (regardless of Language skill or Knowledge attribute), but my human PC should only start with Basic? Before Luke Skywalker ever left his home planet at age 19, he was already fluent in at least Basic, the Jawa Trade Language and Huttese. My system evens it out for all characters, regardless of species, home planet or background.
And regarding your comment about not having the skill, remember I don't have house-ruled unskilled penalties in my game. I am like RAW in that all characters (NPC or PC) have all non-advanced and non-Force skills default to the base attribute. Im my game, a character with 2D in Knowledge and no raised Language skill still has the Language skill at 2D, just like in RAW.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I know that, but when Rolling your Know attribute or your language skill, you need 10 difficult (20) or higher rolls on a language in game to become fluent in said language. So i am having a hard time seeing how someone with just 2D has managed over his life to achieve thirty rolls of 20+?
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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I seem to recall reading a rule in one of the books that stated that a character gets 1 language per D in languages, but it could have been a house rule in my group that ended up getting brought into my games as just common occurrence.
For some characters, I'd allow them 1 language per pip above their attribute in addition to the attribute die code in languages, but only if their character happened to have a linguist background.
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I seem to recall reading a rule in one of the books that stated that a character gets 1 language per D in languages, but it could have been a house rule in my group that ended up getting brought into my games as just common occurrence. |
If you come across it please let me know where. I'll have more cred with the RAW-mongers here! I got the idea from Platt's Smuggler's Guide p. 66 (re: Streetwise/Contacts).
| garhkal wrote: | | I know that, but when Rolling your Know attribute or your language skill, you need 10 difficult (20) or higher rolls on a language in game to become fluent in said language. So i am having a hard time seeing how someone with just 2D has managed over his life to achieve thirty rolls of 20+? |
(1.) According to the Luke Skywalker's game stats as of the Battle of Yavin in the SW Trilogy Sourcebook, Luke Skywalker has Knowledge 2D and no raised Language skill. But like I said in a previous post, Luke has at least three language fluencies from his time growing up on Tatooine alone. It is common in the films for characters to know multiple languages. Aliens speak alien languages and humans reply in Basic and both parties understand what is being said. According to the subtitles, Palpatine even knows Huttese.
(2.) A Difficult difficulty can be as low as 16.
(3.) The rule you cite is for learning new language fluencies after play begins, and has nothing to do with character generation. The rules for after play begins are not necessarily retroactive to before the game begins. If so, then you wouldn't just start out with 7D to allocate to skills. You'd have to write your entire character's life out from birth and every single time you earned a CP you'd have to plot out exactly where each skill was raised. Remember that adventure you had in third grade? That is where you earned enough CPs to get you're first pip in Dodge. But that wouldn't really work because how do we know that you successfully used the skill in that grade school adventure? You're going to have to role-play the adventure and roll the dice. In fact, you'd have to start every character at birth and play out the character's entire life - That's the only way you would know if you really earned those language fluencies! 
(4.) And the existence of that rule for after play begins actually supports my rule for character creation. The rule for learning new fluencies after play begins is quite ridiculous. Someone can't really just listen to someone speaking a difficult sentence in language they don't know at all, and then the 10th time they understand it they suddenly become fluent. Even though I believe there is such a thing as language aptitude in real life, it is actually quite preposterous that you can even listen to a difficult sentence in a language you don't know and just figure out what was said once. Why does it work that way in SW? SW is a cinematic reality, not a realistic reality. My explanation is, average sentient beings in the SW galaxy (including SW "humans") have much more highly developed language center in their brains (maybe even have a portion of brain Earthlings don't even have at all), and with 25,000 years of galactic society, most languages are related to each other through cross-linguistics. Whatever your explanation is, you just accept it and move on. As unrealistic as it is, I choose for my game to have the Language skill work like it does in RAW, with my additional rule about starting language fluencies. In real life, someone would have to spend a lot of time studying and/or have a lot of experience with a language to become fluent in it, and in the game most PCs start out with many years of background where that could happen. In my game, the PC's background has to explain how and where the character picked up these language fluencies (if they are not common languages on the character's homeworld). So it is not just poof, out of a vacuum comes all these language fluencies. I feel my starting language fluency rule (derived on the Language skill and supported by the character's background) is actually more realistic than making ten Difficult Language rolls to get one, but I have both rules in my game. I also have the rule for specializing a in language up to 5D gives you the fluency (even more unrealistic than succeeding at ten Difficult rolls). And I even use the rule where up to one beginning skill die can be used to gain up to three additional starting language fluencies (1 per pip, which likewise must be explained by the PC's background), on top of the starting fluencies they already have in my system.
(5.) You have a problem with my rule, but RAW has no hard base rule for starting language fluencies. What is your rule then?
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