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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yes griff that makes sense and I think within the spirit of the RAW.
R&E p.35, "Characters can learn a new skill or specialization by paying enough Character Points to advance it one pip above the attribute. There is no training time if the character "used the skill" in the last adventure. Otherwise, use the normal rules for training time."
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | I always thought that the specialization defaulted to the base skill not the attribute, unless the base skill was never improved, than you could start with specialization without having to improve the base skill, because you have that skill equal to the attribute by default, as long as it is listed for the character. |
You must be referring to an unskilled penalty you use.
| R&E p.28 wrote: | | Remember, skills that are not improved still have the same die code as their attribute. |
| R&E p.74 wrote: | | Characters [sic] roll their skill dice (or their attribute dice if they haven't improved the skill) whenever they do something important and there's a risk of failure. |
Here RAW doesn't specify that you must have the unimproved skill listed for the character to use it at default value. My game's PCs have every non-advanced (and non-Force) skill whether listed or not, defaulting to the base attribute.
| R&E p.28 wrote: | | A beginning character has 7D to spend on skills; you can add 1D or 2D to any of the skills shown on the template. |
The purpose for the skills being listed on the template seems to be only for character creation purposes. However...
| R&E p.28 wrote: | | With the gamemaster's permission, you can add other skills to the template. |
In my game, character creation is group process and ALL PCs are subject to GM approval. I don't limit players to only choosing skills on the template, but every skill allocation choice must be approved by me. I have always viewed the skills listed on the template as merely suggestions.
Regarding skill specializations, yes, they have a 1/3 cost at character creation and a 1/2 cost (rounded up) when improving them later. It is already harder to learn specializations when advancing the PC than to have the specializations from the beginning. Unless a skill only has 2 specializations, the 1/2 cost is a worse value than improving the base skill. Yes, it's a better deal price at character creation, but even then it is still a worse value than raising base skills unless the base skill only has 3 specializations. You get more bang for your CPs by just improving base skills.
I have no issue with skill specialization cost as-is in RAW. But since the cost to raise a base skill is the same whether you have a specialization under that skill or not, I strongly encourage my players to not specialize until they get the base skill to the max they want it to be (otherwise they are wasting character points on specializations). Overspecialization can be a bad thing as more well-rounded characters tend to have the best chance of surviving in my game.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | DougRed64,
While only 1D is allowed to be "pipped" out to get 1D for three specializations, do you of anybody allow the any or all of the 7D to be "pipped" out to raise normal skills one pip during character creation. I have allowed this. |
Yes. I even tell new players they can pick just 7 skills to take, placing 1d in each, OR they can use 21 pips and assign it as they see fit. Some have done so, others just stick with full D.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, most just take things in full D's, though I don't think I'd have a problem with a person "pipping out" their dice (that sounds dirty, doesn't it?) 
As far as 'listed skills', I agree that characters get ALL non-Advanced, non-Force skills underneath an Attribute, whether listed on the character sheet or not.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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So if they 'get' them all, do they have to pay to learn any?
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Ral_Brelt
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| They get them at the base attribute. That's why one defaults to the attribute. If they want to advance them they have to pay for that..per normal advancement rules. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | griff wrote: | DougRed64,
While only 1D is allowed to be "pipped" out to get 1D for three specializations, do you of anybody allow the any or all of the 7D to be "pipped" out to raise normal skills one pip during character creation. I have allowed this. |
Yes. I even tell new players they can pick just 7 skills to take, placing 1d in each, OR they can use 21 pips and assign it as they see fit. Some have done so, others just stick with full D. |
No, I don't let players "pip out" their entire allocation of skill dice. All my PCs get 7D in skills, and these 7D can only be allocated as 1D or 2D. PCs also get 1 "bonus die" that can be used as follows:
• an 8th die to allocate to skills just as the first 7D, or
• 1 advantage (from a very short list of general low-powered special abilities), or
• 1 species-specific special ability options (very few species even have these available)
- OR -
• 3 skill pips, or
• 3 skill specialization dice, or
• 3 additional starting language fluencies, or
• 3 additional GC contacts, or
• any combination thereof out of this "3" list, adding up to 3 total.
From a game-design perspective, I really don't have a problem with pipping out all the skill dice, but I think my system above is less complicated than that.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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griff
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:24 am Post subject: |
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I like whill's eighth die system. I never had a player pip out all their 7D. While I wouldn't give an outright 8th D, I would give a 2D for 1D on a template related skill (brash pilot- starfighter piloting bonus). I have thought about giving each player twice the number of character points as their age. 'why should a Kid have the same skill level as an Old Senatorial (first edition), 100 CP max. Wookiees would get a age divided by ten times two.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Would attributes 'drop' the older one gets to offset that bonus CP one would receive for starting older?
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jmanski
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | I like whill's eighth die system. I never had a player pip out all their 7D. While I wouldn't give an outright 8th D, I would give a 2D for 1D on a template related skill (brash pilot- starfighter piloting bonus). I have thought about giving each player twice the number of character points as their age. 'why should a Kid have the same skill level as an Old Senatorial (first edition), 100 CP max. Wookiees would get a age divided by ten times two. |
Why should the kid start with the same starting dice? Because he is in an action packed narrative where heroism is important, character survival is maximized, and realism is minimalized.
Why wouldn't you give the kid the same starting dice?
I see it this way: each character in the game became a hero when the story started. So the old senatorial sat on his duff for however long before he decided to "do something about it". The kid started earlier. Life's not fair.
And if you give older characters more starting dice, power gamers will eat that up and abuse it.
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Leon The Lion
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | Why should the kid start with the same starting dice? Because he is in an action packed narrative where heroism is important, character survival is maximized, and realism is minimalized.
Why wouldn't you give the kid the same starting dice?
I see it this way: each character in the game became a hero when the story started. So the old senatorial sat on his duff for however long before he decided to "do something about it". The kid started earlier. Life's not fair. |
Quoted for full agreement.
And if the GM really wants to punish a player for wanting a kid character, there is a lot of story complications he can send the character's way because of their youth, without penalizing attributes and skils.
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griff
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | jmanski wrote: | Why should the kid start with the same starting dice? Because he is in an action packed narrative where heroism is important, character survival is maximized, and realism is minimalized.
Why wouldn't you give the kid the same starting dice?
I see it this way: each character in the game became a hero when the story started. So the old senatorial sat on his duff for however long before he decided to "do something about it". The kid started earlier. Life's not fair. |
Quoted for full agreement.
And if the GM really wants to punish a player for wanting a kid character, there is a lot of story complications he can send the character's way because of their youth, without penalizing attributes and skils. |
Good points, well made.
And to garhkal's point, I thought about having an older character loose one pip from any attribute per every five years over 60.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: |
Why should the kid start with the same starting dice? Because he is in an action packed narrative where heroism is important, character survival is maximized, and realism is minimalized.
Why wouldn't you give the kid the same starting dice? |
Many other game systems do showcase age has its benefits and hinderances. So why not in SW D6?
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Centinull
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have a home brew Zombie Survival RPG, based on the D6 system, where age determines how many starting skills a character has. After a certain age I had the characters make STR, and DEX tests, with failure leading to a loss of a pip.
It worked out okay. We played characters based on ourselves and it became apparent, that even with reduced attributes the older characters were generally better off.
No one played a kid, but I would probably grant a kid and extra pip of Dex and Per to try and balance it out a bit more. There should be some benefit to youth for those willing to play them. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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What i was thinking of for age and stuff was
Kid - +1 per and +1 dex, -1 Know and Tech
AS they hit young adult (late teens to early 20s), +1 dex and Str. No know or other penalties yet.
As one hits into middle age (45 and up for humans) -1 dex OR str (player choice), +1 know or per
Shifting to 65+ (retirement) -1 dex and str, +1 know
At old age (80+) -1 dex or str, +1 know.
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