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Snipers
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is all good info, but i feel snipers (mil) are better rounded for what they do than swat ones.. and also are better at the distance shots..
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Which is all good info, but i feel snipers (mil) are better rounded for what they do than swat ones.. and also are better at the distance shots..


Wait... are you saying that infantry snipers are "cooler" than SWAT snipers, or that they're better at shooting? Because we're talking about two very different applications, here.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Which is all good info, but i feel snipers (mil) are better rounded for what they do than swat ones.. and also are better at the distance shots..


Wait... are you saying that infantry snipers are "cooler" than SWAT snipers, or that they're better at shooting? Because we're talking about two very different applications, here.
I was wondering what "better rounded" meant. When describing someone, I generally don't find the terms "better sniper" and "better rounded" as at all related. Wink
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWAT snipers don't really do much more than get in position ( by vehicle are they usually getting there) and waiting to get called to kill. Mil snipers slog through wildernesses, and sometimes have to spend days at a time staying still before they get that one shot.

That is what i was on about.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I was wondering what "better rounded" meant. When describing someone, I generally don't find the terms "better sniper" and "better rounded" as at all related. Wink

Well, how many snipers (well rounded or not) do you actually know? Snipers get a disproportionate amount of bad media attention. (Probably partially because when they do their job right they get no attention.)
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thedemonapostle
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: snipers Reply with quote

swat vs military

well lets list off the pros and cons of each.

swat sniper
pros:
1. excel at precision shooting in urban settings
2. dont usually have people shooting at them
3. usually get to choose their weapon
4. their weapon usually has some of the best accessories available on the police market
5. is rarely deployed without a minimum of squad level support

cons:
1. has only the best mass produced ammo available
2. receives less formal training than military in regards to the rifle
3. relies heavily upon scoped and precision rifles
4. short term combat engagements, meaning they are usually only deployed for several hours a year
5. is mobile

military sniper
pros:
1. excels at precision shooting in all settings
2. can survive is most environments alone (though usually they have their spotter)
3. has some of the best precision custom made ammo available
4. less reliant upon heavily modified weapons
5. more experience

cons:
1. their selection of rifle is usually limited
2. does not work well in a group
3. deployed into combat zones excessively (ptsd)
4. can only eliminate a target if given command authority
5. superiors look on them as being more expendable

personally ive gone threw both. law enforcement rifle training is much more relaxed at all stages of training. and at the end of the day you get to go home to your spouse. in the military half of your rifle training with your unit is composed of field training exercises that last for sometimes weeks. no cell phone, no hot food (mre's dont count) no hot shower, and no comfy bed. but we we important? id say we were as about important as the lowly infantry grenadier in the eyes of our superiors. in law enforcement it was always a competition. if you were second best you werent even a spotter, you were no one. and if the best had a bad day, he became second best, aka no one. and you have to be someone to be the sniper in law enforcement.

who shoots better? neither, both.
who is more adaptable to their environment? military
who works better in:
team? military
squad? swat
platoon? swat
company? swat
battalion? both
brigade? military
who has the better rifle? swat
who is better at the ever changing conditions of combat engagements? military
who has more experience overall? military
who has the better moral? swat
who gets paid more? swat (E-5 =~$2,000/ month swat sniper=~$2,500+/month)
who has the opportunity for a larger gun? military (.308win is the largest swat is permitted to use, .50BMG is the current largest the military uses)

one also has to remember that swat's budget is based upon the local law enforcement agency's cash flow. while the military's budget is based upon the governing body's defense budget. so the military is going to have better training overall. but the military sniper is more of a political tool than the swat sniper. the swat sniper has less cultural/political knowledge than the military sniper. the military sniper is more specialized for the mission. the swat sniper has more social experience.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess some of these snipers were well rounded.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good breakdown apostle.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
What do you think about them?


A useful part of warfare, especially for high value targets. They generally focus on enemy leadership.

Bren wrote:
How high should their blaster, firearms, missile weapons, or whatever skills be?


On a world with little military prowess, maybe 2D (average folk)-3D (hunters) as the locals attempt to learn how to fight. On a world with military prowess, maybe 5D (trained expert) with +1D-5D for scopes, bipod, careful aiming.

Bren wrote:
Are snipers different than assassins and if so, how?


Snipers are engaged in lawful military action. Assassins are engaged in unlawful murder. Although they use similar techniques, the difference is in the morality. Why we do things is just as important as what we do.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

Volar the Healer wrote:

Bren wrote:
How high should their blaster, firearms, missile weapons, or whatever skills be?


On a world with little military prowess, maybe 2D (average folk)-3D (hunters) as the locals attempt to learn how to fight. On a world with military prowess, maybe 5D (trained expert) with +1D-5D for scopes, bipod, careful aiming.


I would actually place most Military forces snipers around 6d-7d starting out.. since they usually are more than just the regular folk.
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Volar the Healer
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I would actually place most Military forces snipers around 6d-7d starting out.. since they usually are more than just the regular folk.


Agreed. But amongst a thousand, thousand worlds not every planet even has a military. And even those who do, some may be nothing more that a honours or parade group - after all "there hasn't been a full scale war since the founding of the Republic". So, I guess there won't be a lot of highly skilled armies; at least, not in the beginning.

I just wanted to put forward the idea that not everyone always has the best of everything.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

Volar the Healer wrote:
Bren wrote:
Are snipers different than assassins and if so, how?


Snipers are engaged in lawful military action. Assassins are engaged in unlawful murder. Although they use similar techniques, the difference is in the morality. Why we do things is just as important as what we do.

So you are assuming that the Empire considers Rebel snipers to be engaged in lawful military action? I think that is unlikely given Vader's comment to Princess Leia:
Quote:
You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Volar the Healer wrote:

Bren wrote:
How high should their blaster, firearms, missile weapons, or whatever skills be?


On a world with little military prowess, maybe 2D (average folk)-3D (hunters) as the locals attempt to learn how to fight. On a world with military prowess, maybe 5D (trained expert) with +1D-5D for scopes, bipod, careful aiming.


I would actually place most Military forces snipers around 6d-7d starting out.. since they usually are more than just the regular folk.


I don't know, with all the bonuses snipers get from their weapons, I'd say 5d would be plenty (and not much of a stretch, either)
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
Volar the Healer wrote:
Bren wrote:
Are snipers different than assassins and if so, how?


Snipers are engaged in lawful military action. Assassins are engaged in unlawful murder. Although they use similar techniques, the difference is in the morality. Why we do things is just as important as what we do.

So you are assuming that the Empire considers Rebel snipers to be engaged in lawful military action? I think that is unlikely given Vader's comment to Princess Leia:
Quote:
You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.


Thus, the Empire may well consider them assassins. That doesn't mean that they are so; they are still acting within the rules of warfare, against military targets. Yes? From an objective perspective, they are one side in a war taking legitimate military action. Simply from the Empire's subjective perspective, not recognizing their legitimacy, they are considered assassins. Either way, whether the Empire recognizes it or not, they still only go after military targets and follow the general rules of engagement of warfare.

Or not? Smile That's just my gut reaction to the scenario.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Snipers Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
How high should their blaster, firearms, missile weapons, or whatever skills be?
We could look at the base assumptions of what a typical (I know, I know, just want to keep it simple Razz ) sniper is expected to accomplish reliably and extrapolate their skill from there... What do people think of the following assumptions? Reliably hit a 10cm target at long range:

16-20 (Difficult) plus 4D (Called shot, up to 10cm) with an average about 32.


That is what? 10D assuming an average roll with change to spare?

jmanski wrote:
I don't know, with all the bonuses snipers get from their weapons, I'd say 5d would be plenty (and not much of a stretch, either)
What kind of bonuses could a properly/typically equipped sniper expect to have in the SW universe?

+1D for aiming for a round
+1D with a spotter combining action (give or take).

That gets us down to 8D, where else could we gain bonuses?

EDIT: I'm probably expecting a bit much of typical sniper though, that is a quite a challenge to overcome reliably...
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