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New Scale System
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Flitter wasn't an option (and it was used to classify cycle-equivalent vehicles in the Old Republic Sourcebook, which is why I used it), I'd go with Swoop, which is much more "Star Warsy", IMO.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Bike" is an in-universe term and obviously doesn't mean bicycle in the Star Wars universe. I wouldn't shy away from it just for that reason.

You reminded me that an actual bicycle did appear in one of my Star Wars adventures. A PC from a primitive planet (with a 1930s Earth tech level) who had been taken as a child and raised by space pirates was temporarily stranded on his homeworld and ended up needing a local vehicle. He blew his roll to repair a old automobile, so he had to ride through town and deal with some antagonists on a bicycle. It was rather humorous.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11463
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
"Bike" is an in-universe term and obviously doesn't mean bicycle in the Star Wars universe. I wouldn't shy away from it just for that reason.

I get that, but for what ever reason, "bike" just doesn't sit well with me. As in, not "Star Wars" enough. It's just a feeling, which is never an easy thing to explain.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
so he had to ride through town and deal with some antagonists on a bicycle. It was rather humorous.


Did it have a little bell?

Basket on the front?

lol

Streamers from the handle bars?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
"Bike" is an in-universe term and obviously doesn't mean bicycle in the Star Wars universe. I wouldn't shy away from it just for that reason.

You reminded me that an actual bicycle did appear in one of my Star Wars adventures. A PC from a primitive planet (with a 1930s Earth tech level) who had been taken as a child and raised by space pirates was temporarily stranded on his homeworld and ended up needing a local vehicle. He blew his roll to repair a old automobile, so he had to ride through town and deal with some antagonists on a bicycle. It was rather humorous.


I have had several 'primitive' planets appear in gaming sessions, also with proper bikes, motorcycles and modern cars.. That's what the ground vehicle skill is for.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Whill wrote:
so he had to ride through town and deal with some antagonists on a bicycle. It was rather humorous.

Did it have a little bell?

Basket on the front?

lol

Streamers from the handle bars?

Bell and basket: yes, but no streamers. That would just be humiliating. Cool
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Savar
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:


Speeder:
-AT-ST
-Landspeeders
-Airspeeders
-Compact Assault Vehicle
-ULAV
-Tramp Shuttle
-Skiff

Flitter:
-Speeder Bikes
-Swoops
-Repulsor Sled


would AT-PT be speeder or flitter ?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speeder
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, this thing never seems to be done...

I'm considering the following changes:
    1). As part of my revision of WEG vehicle stats, I'm thinking of renaming "Flitter" to "Swoop". What I have in mind is placing all speeder bikes, swoops and similarly sized vehicles under the skill Swoop Operation, so as to separate cycle-sized vehicles from the larger speeders in both scale and skill.

    2). Changing Destroyer from +14D to +12D. This would put all of the larger capital ships at +6D over Starfighters, as they are in the RAW. Frigate-Scale vessels would remain at +10D. My feeling is that Capital Ships like ISDs are hard enough to damage with a +6D scale advantage over starfighters, so there isn't an urgent need to make them even tougher. Plus, it moves Destroyer scale ships further into the threat range for the turbolaser batteries on Frigate-scale heavy cruisers (historically, heavy cruiser main batteries packed enough of a punch to damage battleships if handled properly).

    3). Bringing back Dreadnought Scale at +14D or +16D for the monster ships (Executor, Eclipse, Sovereign, etc.). I like the idea because these rare ships are so much larger than ISDs and MC80s. It also would allow me to rewrite their stats down to something manageable (as opposed to the double-digit-D values they have under the RAW). The thing is, these ships are so rare that I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. I mean, how often do your PCs take on SSDs in combat?

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The thing is, these ships are so rare that I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. I mean, how often do your PCs take on SSDs in combat?[/list]


IN every game i have ran/played in, our groups have generally RAN like little girly men any time we saw (or the players saw) an SSD showing up...
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
IN every game i have ran/played in, our groups have generally RAN like little girly men any time we saw (or the players saw) an SSD showing up...

Exactly. In my experience, a SSD showing up in the same system as the PCs is little more than a railroad technique: an excellent motivation for them to be somewhere else. My only real interest is in completeness; the SSD is included in the core sourcebooks, so an updated stat for it should also be included. Putting in a higher scale class than standard ISDs would also allow the ship's 18D soak to be reduced to more manageable levels, as well as allowing me to apply one of my own house rules that applies the Scale modifiers to maneuver penalties...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, up to this point, my scale system has gone through six different variations. Here's #7, addressing the concerns I mentioned above. It should be the last one. We'll see...
    Fine -8D (-32)
    Minute -6D (-24)
    Tiny -4D (-16)
    Small -2D (-8)
    Character 0D (+0)
    Swoop +2D (+8)
    Speeder +4D (+16)
    Starship +6D (+24)
    Walker +8D (+32)
    Frigate +10D (+40)
    Destroyer +12D (+48)
    Dreadnought +16D (+64)
    Death Star +24D (+96)
So, the explanations are as follows:
    Fine - Objects less than 1 cm in diameter.

    Minute - Small hand-held objects, such as comlinks, a deck of cards, data chips or hold-out blasters.

    Tiny - Large hand-held objects, such as blaster pistols, data pads, and some tools.

    Small - Larger hand-held or carried objects, such as blaster rifles, laptop-type computers or small storage boxes. Also includes living beings much smaller than humans.

    Swoop - Flitter just wasn't working for me, so I decided to change this class to Swoop, including Speeder Bikes, Swoops and Repulsor-Sleds, all of which will now use the Swoop Operations skill.

    Destroyer - The 4D gap between Frigate and Destroyer wasn't working for me, either. The RAW's +6D split between starfighters and capital ships makes the big ships hard enough to damage as it is, so I decided to move Destroyer back to the RAW's modifier of +12D, putting it 6D above starfighters and 2D above Frigate.

    Dreadnought - Because of some other considerations (particularly a House Rule that applied Scale modifiers to the Difficulty of performing Maneuvers, I decided to put Dreadnought-Class back into play for the really big monster ships, like the Executor.

To clarify, here is the revised list of what-goes-where:

Dreadnought:
-Super Star Destroyer

Destroyer:
-Imperial Star Destroyer
-Victory Star Destroyer
-Torpedo Sphere
-Mon Calamari Cruiser

Frigate:
-Dreadnaught-Class Cruiser
-Alliance Assault Cruiser
-Interdictor
-Strike Cruiser
-Escort Carrier
-Carrack Light Cruiser
-Alliance Bulk Carrier
-Star Galleon
-Nebulon B Frigate
-Lancer-Class Frigate
-Corellian Corvette
-Corellian Gunship
-System Patrol Craft
-Assault Shuttle
-Blastboat
-Luxury Liner
-Container Ship
-Bulk Transport
-Medium Transport

Walker:
-AT-AT
-Juggernaut
-Mobile Command Base
-Chariot Command Speeder
-Hoverscout
-Alliance Freerunner
-Heavy Tracker
-Speeder Truck
-Sail Barge

Starship:
-Light Freighters
-Space Barges
-All starfighter types
-Cloud Cars

Speeder:
-AT-ST
-Landspeeders
-Airspeeders
-Compact Assault Vehicle
-ULAV
-Tramp Shuttle
-Skiff

Swoop:
-Speeder Bikes
-Swoops
-Repulsor Sled

EDIT: Added the Dreadnought-Scale class, as discussed on the following page.

EDIT: Added the option of flat scale values, at a rate of 1D=+4

EDIT: Added this rule to the Scale Chart.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:03 pm; edited 6 times in total
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it. Thanks!
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks nice...

As a q.. Where would most luxury Yachts come in at?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really need to carve out time to reread the thread; I have some first principles questions that you've probably already answered.
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