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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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My experiences with Frank have been more positive than Whill's; if you like, I'll reach out and ask him about the LoneScout.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | My experiences with Frank have been more positive than Whill's; if you like, I'll reach out and ask him about the LoneScout. |
Thank you, CRMcNeill! That is most appreciated! |
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pakman
Commander
Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 385
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:10 am Post subject: |
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So, there is a reason we don't have a good measure - because there is no one single correct number....
Typically we cannot judge a ship by the size of interior movies sets.
I say this not just as someone how has a background in set construction and production, but from reading various articles over the year and behind the scenes sources on the falcon.
Sets are often built to accommodate shooting, blocking and other various factors which have nothing to do with any kind of reality at times.
The external sets - those may be a better judge - but at times - those may be different depending upon set up or site location (if a vehicle prop is used in more than one set location, for example or which movie). Although - in some cases these may be too small. Take a look at some of the various behind the scenes videos (yes, there are more than one - a lot more) on the falcon.
but for the falcon - it gets worse - this was a result not just of the necessities of cinematography - but also a result of the fact the falcon design was changed very late in the process of designing and building sets - and they do not match - at all.
Here is one such documentary on the evolution of the falcon - which mentions this exact fact;
https://youtu.be/dbFu0UNuf9Q
Here is another decent breakdown of the various falcons - including some of the differences between the interior and exterior shots.
https://sites.google.com/site/millenniumfalconnotes/the-sets
This also has links to a lot of really cool resources on the sets as well.
So no, we can't use the interiors. Really.
External Sizes also vary depending upon which version of the full size prop - the size can vary - for example in star wars - they did not build the full thing for budget reasons - in empire supposedly it was 80feet long (seems to small to me), the one at galaxy's edge - is supposedly 100 feet.
Heck, even official star wars recognizes there are size issues....
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-galaxys-edge-millennium-falcon-smugglers-run
If the interiors are too big, and the exteriors may vary - what do you do?
Pick the number that works best for your game and head canon.
In mine, it is about 30m long.
But hey, to each their own.
_________________
SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| pakman wrote: | So, there is a reason we don't have a good measure - because there is no one single correct number....
Typically we cannot judge a ship by the size of interior movies sets.
I say this not just as someone how has a background in set construction and production, but from reading various articles over the year and behind the scenes sources on the falcon.
Sets are often built to accommodate shooting, blocking and other various factors which have nothing to do with any kind of reality at times.
The external sets - those may be a better judge - but at times - those may be different depending upon set up or site location (if a vehicle prop is used in more than one set location, for example or which movie). Although - in some cases these may be too small. Take a look at some of the various behind the scenes videos (yes, there are more than one - a lot more) on the falcon.
but for the falcon - it gets worse - this was a result not just of the necessities of cinematography - but also a result of the fact the falcon design was changed very late in the process of designing and building sets - and they do not match - at all.
Here is one such documentary on the evolution of the falcon - which mentions this exact fact;
https://youtu.be/dbFu0UNuf9Q
Here is another decent breakdown of the various falcons - including some of the differences between the interior and exterior shots.
https://sites.google.com/site/millenniumfalconnotes/the-sets
This also has links to a lot of really cool resources on the sets as well.
So no, we can't use the interiors. Really.
External Sizes also vary depending upon which version of the full size prop - the size can vary - for example in star wars - they did not build the full thing for budget reasons - in empire supposedly it was 80feet long (seems to small to me), the one at galaxy's edge - is supposedly 100 feet.
Heck, even official star wars recognizes there are size issues....
https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-galaxys-edge-millennium-falcon-smugglers-run
If the interiors are too big, and the exteriors may vary - what do you do?
Pick the number that works best for your game and head canon.
In mine, it is about 30m long.
But hey, to each their own.
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Good to know, Thank you! You have some very good points!
I think i've made up my mind to go with Mr. Bonura's estimate/recalculation of ~37.5 meters for most YT-1300s, and Whill's suggestion that Lando's Falcon is ≈45m with the escape craft attached.
This discussion has been most helpful. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Inquisitor1138 wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | My experiences with Frank have been more positive than Whill's; if you like, I'll reach out and ask him about the LoneScout. |
Thank you, CRMcNeill! That is most appreciated! |
I heard back from Frank, and he said that they had been working on it, but ran into some issues. He forwarded me some images of the progress they had made, though:
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition) |
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From Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition):
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Frank Bonura posted the following on the Star Wars D6 Facebook page. It's the length conversion chart they use over at the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance:If a freighter's WEG length is < 53.4 meters long: 140%
If a freighter's WEG length is 53.5 to 106.7 meters long: 120%
If a freighter's WEG length is 106.8 to 213.5 meters long: 110%
If a freighter's WEG length is >= 213.6 meters long: No change
So, take the listed WEG length of a ship, compare that to the above list, then multiply accordingly.
For example, the 26.7 meters listed for a YT-1300 falls into the 140% range, so multiply 26.7 by 1.4 to get 37.38 meters.
Obviously most freighters that characters will be using fall into the 140% range.
EDIT: Added "WEG length" to the above table, to clarify which length to use as a base in (the EU being what it is, a ship can easily have multiple "official" lengths). |
So i've been looking at Stock Ships & space transports from various WEG material & i'm thinking i may well do conversions on most if not all WEG & derivative space transports, but not starfighters; those WEG got mostly right. When WEG botched on starfighters, was making Vader's TIE Advanced x1 as big as the bombers from ESB...
And i'm making an Imperial Scout who uses a customized YT-1300, central cockpit, Length 42 meters.
In other news Western NY is literally turning into Hoth starting tomorrow & lasting at least five days deadly storm. So my @@@@@ internet might be worse/crashed, so wish me luck? |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Same it the Phoenix area - it got down into the 40's last night! |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I like these, but I also like the version I developed with input from this group. Of course my version is crude and 2D but it will work in my top down game view whete imperfections are not a big deal due to the scale if everything. I will probably create a version of this as a top down unless the artist already has one. |
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Same it the Phoenix area - it got down into the 40's last night! |
Today High: 39 °F, Low: 31 °F...
I have cousins down there. I hope you & they will be ok. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | I like these, but I also like the version I developed with input from this group. Of course my version is crude and 2D but it will work in my top down game view whete imperfections are not a big deal due to the scale if everything. I will probably create a version of this as a top down unless the artist already has one. |
Honestly, while I'm a fan of Frank's work, and I think it's superior to the ridiculous limo-stretched TIE fighter, this still looks like a flying bucket.
I've been chewing over how to make the LoneScout more streamlined, and I've got a concept I rather like, based on the one Frank provided above. The two main ideas I have are:1) Rather than a "bucket" behind the cockpit, make it something more like a submarine's conning tower that tapers to a point at the rear, as well as sloping down to give it a more rakish look (makes a good mounting point for the tail gun I proposed). And maybe have it bulk out at the base for a boarding hatch.
2) Rather than having the TIE S-panels be uniform size all the way back, give it something like the TIE Aggressor, with the top panel being truncated forward while the bottom panel extends well aft. Combined, I think these two features would maintain the existing front profile, while giving it a much more appealing side and rear profile
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:17 am Post subject: Forum Decorum |
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Gentlemen, let us continue the Lone Scout discussion in the TIE/sr / Lone Scout-A thread, shall we? After all, We wouldn't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor (Whill).
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
 
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander
Joined: 24 Nov 2021
Posts: 440
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Agreed - it is getting confusing.
However I did want to take a moment to thank you all for these discussions. We do not always (or even often) seem to agree on discussion points, but we do not have to. I personally love debate reinforced with support and evidence and have been swayed many times from an earlier stance based on discussions in the Pit. We may get a bit of an edge in our responses because we are passionate about the topic and because written text lacks other context such as pitch and facial expressions, can can also sometimes be misinterpreted. However, I very much appreciate civil discourse and hope we all give each other the benefit of the doubt that no ill will is intended with our comments. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 604
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:57 pm Post subject: Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition) |
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From Ship of Riddles (Archive Edition):
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Frank Bonura posted the following on the Star Wars D6 Facebook page. It's the length conversion chart they use over at the Star Wars Deckplans Alliance:If a freighter's WEG length is < 53.4 meters long: 140%
If a freighter's WEG length is 53.5 to 106.7 meters long: 120%
If a freighter's WEG length is 106.8 to 213.5 meters long: 110%
If a freighter's WEG length is >= 213.6 meters long: No change
So, take the listed WEG length of a ship, compare that to the above list, then multiply accordingly.
For example, the 26.7 meters listed for a YT-1300 falls into the 140% range, so multiply 26.7 by 1.4 to get 37.38 meters.
Obviously most freighters that characters will be using fall into the 140% range.
EDIT: Added "WEG length" to the above table, to clarify which length to use as a base in (the EU being what it is, a ship can easily have multiple "official" lengths). |
CRMcNeil, do you apply these to civilian/passenger transports & shuttles?
I think i might, but wanted your 2¢. I'd draw the line at starfighters & TIE shuttles, as WEG was either A) on point or B) making half-assed guesses that were too big.
_________________
Facing all that you fear will free you from yourself.
The Rancor Pit Library
Bounty Hunting is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Game Mastering is a Complicated Profession... Wouldn't you agree?
Count Dooku: Your swords, please. We don't want to make a mess of things in front of the Chancellor. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, I don't know. It's noteworthy that, when it comes to the deck plans of Frank's that I use, he is still using WEG listed lengths. I guess I could hit him up and ask him again.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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