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Updating X-Wing: Alliance Ship Stats
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Funny that you posted this. I have no experience with this video game, but I just read recently that the TIE/rb has built-in droid intelligence. I read it in the TIE Fighter Owners' Workshop Manual, and it looks like the info has been entered into the Brute's Wookieepedia's entry if you want to check it out and possibly update your stats of the ship. I think the book said something about it being similar to an astromech droid. FYI.
As near as I can tell, the source is the deleted scene where Solo is flying a TIE Brute. I'd have to put some thought into how I'd apply it; my first thought on reading this was to make it an advanced auto-pilot of sorts, handling the flying while the pilot mans the guns (with the distinction being that all ships have an auto-pilot that can handle any Movement actions that don't require skill rolls, while the advanced combat auto-pilot can actually lock onto a target and pursue it, or take evasive action).
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
I was thinking of something a little more serious.

It's easy enough, you just populate your list with multiple entries of the more common TIEs.

Well, if that's a project you feel like tackling, more power to you, and I'll provide input where I can.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
As near as I can tell, the source is the deleted scene where Solo is flying a TIE Brute. I'd have to put some thought into how I'd apply it; my first thought on reading this was to make it an advanced auto-pilot of sorts, handling the flying while the pilot mans the guns (with the distinction being that all ships have an auto-pilot that can handle any Movement actions that don't require skill rolls, while the advanced combat auto-pilot can actually lock onto a target and pursue it, or take evasive action).

Yeah, the book has a picture of Han in an TIE pilot suit so that must be it. So the TIE Brute maybe doesn't have this level of droid intelligence but maybe can perform some astromech-type actions, so you may still want to update your stats anyway.
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Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A self-repair system like an astromech would be a great addition to the TIE droid brain for the TIEs.

If they survive the first hit, they might be able to peel off and do at least some work on the fighter before it falls apart from being, well, a TIE. Razz

Also, having the droid brain with such lackluster stats taking up the entire ball cockpit would be quite cost effective as there is less miniaturization. Allows for easy building, too, and possibly even easy adaptation. Give TIE/in Interceptors to Human pilots while the TIE/ln Fighters get droid brains and, potentially, suicidal orders that even TIE Pilots would refuse.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a gaming standpoint, an onboard droid's biggest usefulness is to handle other onboard duties to keep the pilot from racking up MAPs. Something that can get lost in the shuffle of a combat round is that a TIE trying to keep up with, say, a freighter flying flat-out through an asteroid field, is going to get a +1D MAP to their Gunnery and Piloting skills if they try to keep up the pursuit and fire their weapons. A droid brain that can handle things like shields, repairs, or even low level piloting duties is going to help out a lot.

Of course, that has to be counterbalanced against the potential expense. If the TIE is to stay a cheap. mass-produced fighter that is effectively disposable, then a droid brain that can handle all of those duties multiplied across however many millions of TIE fighters there are is going to get cost-prohibitive pretty quickly.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scavenger's guide to droid conversion had a mutli-thread or multi-core processor, which I would consider equipping these droid brains with. It allows them to do a couple of actions, or 1 specific action with no MAP. It would be exceptionally useful since the skills are so low to begin with.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Scavenger's guide to droid conversion had a mutli-thread or multi-core processor, which I would consider equipping these droid brains with. It allows them to do a couple of actions, or 1 specific action with no MAP. It would be exceptionally useful since the skills are so low to begin with.

Maybe for more advanced "boss" droids, but I think having them be not as good as a human pilot fits with the concept and the place in the timeline. There's very much a theme of opposition to autonomous and capable droids in the SWU during the Empire period, so a droid brain starfighter as a stop-gap to sudden loss of resources post-Endor is going to be playing catch-up, technologically speaking.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray wrote:
A self-repair system like an astromech would be a great addition to the TIE droid brain for the TIEs.

If they survive the first hit, they might be able to peel off and do at least some work on the fighter before it falls apart from being, well, a TIE. Razz

IIRC, a lot of the X-Wing's self-repair capability was built into the X-Wing itself, in the form of micro-servos, redundant backups and repair remotes, with the astromech operating those systems so the pilot could concentrate on flying and fighting. That level of complexity and redundancy is going to add a lot of cost to a family of fighters intended from the outset to be low-cost and mass-produced.

Now, I can definitely see a droid co-pilot for some of the more advanced TIEs, like the Brute or the Bomber, but probably not for base-line TIE/ln's.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
TIE Droid Brain
I have no experience with this video game, but I just read recently that the TIE/rb has built-in droid intelligence. I read it in the TIE Fighter Owners' Workshop Manual, and it looks like the info has been entered into the Brute's Wookieepedia's entry if you want to check it out and possibly update your stats of the ship. I think the book said something about it being similar to an astromech droid. FYI.

So, based on aspects of a larger project I'm working on, I'm thinking of adding this system in part to a couple other fighters: the TIE/rb for one, but I'm also strongly considering adding it to the TIE Bomber. Because of the way my Lock-On rule works, having a second crewmember to handle non-piloting duties provides several advantages, especially when it comes to MAPs or other restricted actions like moving All-Out.

Any thoughts as to other TIE models that would benefit from having a droid co-pilot?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giving this a bump because I'm wanting to do the stats for the Missile Boat, using the Fractalsponge version. However, I haven't decided whether I'm going to go with Fractal's ordnance numbers (his has just over half of the canon ship's capacity) or the original.

Another problem is that some of the official numbers on this thing are...absurdly high. Its XW:A performance figures are as follows:
    122 MGLT (426 w/ SLAM)
    91 DPF
    Hyperdrive Class 6.0
    19 RU
    120 SBD
Using the conversion ratios I posted above, this works out to:
    Space 10 (34 w/ SLAM)
    Maneuverability 3D+2
    Hyperdrive Multiplier x6
    Shields 6D+2
    Hull 3D+2
The three obvious issues are the insanely high Space when using the SLAM (where the only apparent penalty is not being able to use the Medium Laser Cannon), the crazy-powerful Shields, and the extremely slow Hyperdrive.

I'm still mulling over how I want to write this up, but if anyone has thoughts on the matter, feel free to let me know.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just added the following to the Droid Brain stat post:
    Note: A compact version of the Droid Brain (minus the Hull Bonus and Data-Link) has been installed as a pilot/assistant in many recent models of TIE Fighter. It can be coordinated by the Pilot as a Free Action at a Very Easy Command roll.
The deleted scenes from Solo make it pretty clear that the TIE Brute has this (or something very much like it installed), and considering its ordnance delivery mission, I expect the TIE/gt would have it as well. Any thoughts as to other craft of that era that might be equipped?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I originally did the stats for the T-Wing and the R-41 Starchaser, I was compelled to take some liberties and give the two ships slightly better shields than their stats suggested. Going off the published stats from the X-Wing PC game, their Shields should rank in the 0D+1 or 0D+2 range, based on the following SBD values:
    T-Wing 20
    R-41 30
    X-Wing 50
The thing is, under the RAW, having a 0D+1 or 0D+2 increased in damage soak is almost not worth the Shield skill roll needed to apply it in the first place. However, if one were to use the Shields as Cover house rule, a value of less than 1D actually becomes usable if the Shield operator can stack them. Auxiliary power also helps here.

As such, I think I'm going to change the Shield Stat on the T-Wing and the R-41 to 0D+1 and 0D+2 respectively, which better fits their capability relative to the X-Wing.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree with the general sentiment that RAW shield rules have issues and we address those differently, I disagree that +1 or +2 is not worth the shield roll in the first place in RAW, especially when you have multiple characters on a ship each doing something different in the battle. Now if you have a single character doing it all in the middle of combat, no, the MAP may not make it worth angling the shields for that small of a benefit.

But also remember, the roll is only for when angling to a different fire arc. If a pilot or shield operator sets the shields to a certain arc, you only have to roll for shields when changing them again. So you can set the shields before combat begins and leave them there, getting the +1 or +2 benefit to hull rolls on that arc without new shield rolls, until the shields are blown. Just sayin'.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every pip counts! I also agree that a shield value of +1 or +2 is worth it, as typically a pilot raises the shields in a particular arc and often leaves them there or moves them infrequently.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point is that, under the RAW, it's hard enough having to split 1D between three different fire arcs, and 0D+1 or 0D+2 is even worse. Under a house rule like Shields as Cover, it's more useful, since it serves as a base that can be built upon rather than a dice pool that has to be split.
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