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Danger Sense: An Alternate Approach
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject: Danger Sense: An Alternate Approach Reply with quote

I've never been fully comfortable with the way WEG set up Danger Sense; in the EU, Danger Sense is always presented as a sort of intuitive awareness of the presence of eminent danger, not something a character has to make a conscious decision to detect. As such, here is something I've been considering:
    Danger Sense

    Sense Difficulty: Easy

    Unlike a regular Force power, this roll occurs automatically, and does not need to be kept up. However, the character may not re-roll a failed result.

    Result:
      Sense Roll vs. Difficulty = Result

      Sense Roll < Difficulty = Character senses danger, but dismisses it as "just nerves". In the event of an attack, the character rolls initiative as normal.

      Sense Roll > Difficulty by 0-9 = Character's Sense roll is used in place of Perception for Initiative.

      Sense Roll > Difficulty by 10 or more = As above, but the character's awareness of the danger is of sufficient clarity that the GM may provide specific details as to the nature of the danger, such as exactly where a bomb is located, or the exact location of a sniper, etc.

    Effect: One of the most basic manifestations of a Force User's ability to sense events before they happen is Danger Sense, which allows the character a basic awareness of danger in their immediate future. In game terms, Danger Sense allows a Force User the option of rolling their Sense skill for Initiative, instead of Perception. This roll functions against any attack, including those that would normally count as surprise attacks.

    Modifiers:
    +5 - General threat to the Jedi (Jedi on ship’s bridge: "The bridge is going to be attacked!")
    +10 – Non-specific threat (Jedi on ship’s bridge "The ship’s engines are about to be attacked!")
    +15 and up – Political, or very vague, non-direct attacks. ("It’s not about the mission, Master. It’s something…elsewhere…elusive")
    +10 when sensing danger in a high-threat situation (multiple simultaneous threats).

    Game Note: Unlike a normal Initiative roll, Danger Sense must be re-rolled for a new attack, and is subject to MAPs.

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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, this is a better representation of what we see in the EU. It allows the Force User's Danger Sense to be overwhelmed by stacking multiple simultaneous threats against them, which is pretty much what we see happen to the Jedi at the end of ROTS. It also allows the GM to make a hidden roll to see whether or not the Jedi detects the eminent attack and fit that awareness into the narrative.

Thoughts?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO do away with the danger sense power itself, and just give every jedi the ability to detect dangers??
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
SO do away with the danger sense power itself, and just give every jedi the ability to detect dangers??

Isn't that the way it is in the EU? There is no conscious choice to bring up Danger Sense in the EU; the character is simply, suddenly aware of the danger. The less in tune the character is with the Force (i.e. a low Sense skill level) the more likely they are to simply dismiss the danger as "nerves" as opposed to the Force trying to tell them something.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I recall in the EU, it's not something every Jedi has (or at least not to the same degree). Some can detect danger in general terms, and some can only detect things that directly affect them.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
From what I recall in the EU, it's not something every Jedi has (or at least not to the same degree). Some can detect danger in general terms, and some can only detect things that directly affect them.

That's why I wrote it up as a Force power, not an automatic ability. The character still has to learn the power; the actual roll to use it is just something that automatically happens as opposed to being declared. There are rules in various locations that would allow the character to still use it untrained by spending a FP or something. Personally, I think the cost is a little too steep for FS characters; I'd be willing to downgrade it to allowing FS characters to spend a CP to use an untrained power instead...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Thoughts?

I've felt the same way about the RAW power. I like the general idea and purpose of this ability. I like this ability better than RAW. But I'll have to ponder the specifics further.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I've felt the same way about the RAW power. I like the general idea and purpose of this ability. I like this ability better than RAW. But I'll have to ponder the specifics further.

Ponder away. I can't escape the feeling I'm missing something on this, and if someone sees what I'm missing, I'd love to factor that in.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I almost feel like it should be grown as a separate skill under the force power tree. Having it tied to Sense only makes it seem... generic... not sure if that's the word I'm looking for exactly, but I don't feel like it conveys the varied nature as presented in the EU. I also sorta feel like the modifiers should maybe apply to the roll itself, rather than to the difficulty.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

That's why I wrote it up as a Force power, not an automatic ability. The character still has to learn the power; the actual roll to use it is just something that automatically happens as opposed to being declared. There are rules in various locations that would allow the character to still use it untrained by spending a FP or something. Personally, I think the cost is a little too steep for FS characters; I'd be willing to downgrade it to allowing FS characters to spend a CP to use an untrained power instead...


So if its still a power, why is it not needing to be activated like every other power?

Several years back iirc it was on this site, i propposed an updated version (and submitted it to our group) and this is what they settled on..

Danger Sense
Sense Difficulty M (15) or Control – aware of danger but no details
D (20) or Control +5 – As above, and general direction of danger
VD (25) or Control +10 – As above, and type of danger (i.e. blaster, grenade)
H (30) or Control +15 – As above, and the range of the danger
H +5 (35) or Control +20 – As above, and all details of the danger
Required Powers – Life Detection
Power may be kept ‘up’
Effect – Danger Sense allows a Force-user to extend his senses around himself like protective sensors, creating an early warning system for as long as the power is in effect.
When the power is used, the Force-user detects any attacks at the end of the round before they are made. This gives a Force-user certain information to react to the danger on the following round.
In game terms, if any character is going to attack a Force-user on the next round, they must declare their action the round before it happens. Attacking characters with Force skills may roll their Control skill to increase the difficulty of using this power. Depending on how well the Force-user rolls to activate this power determines the amount of information of the impending attack. If the Force-user wins initiative on the round the action is to happen in, they can then perform one action prior to the intended attack (the Force-user can react with knowledge obtained depending on their skill roll).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heartily concur that DS is a passive ability. Once combat starts, though I don't allow it at all.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I heartily concur that DS is a passive ability. Once combat starts, though I don't allow it at all.

That's a good idea. Lightsaber Combat and Combat Sense both include a degree of precognition already, so it would be easy enough to say that the tangled possible futures found in a pitched battle would make basic danger sense difficult if not impossible.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if its still a power, why is it not needing to be activated like every other power?

Did you miss the part where it has a Difficulty with modifiers, and still has to be learned? You still have to roll to bring it up; the conditions for exactly how it is brought up are the big difference.

While this may seem heretical to the true believers of the Gospel according to WEG, I firmly believe that Force use absolutely has an unconscious, instinctive element to it. Requiring that powers be declared before they can be used flies in the face of what we see in both the films and the EU. It makes the Force too much like casting spells in D&D, and Danger Sense is one of the worst of the lot.

Quote:
Several years back iirc it was on this site, i propposed an updated version (and submitted it to our group) and this is what they settled on..

I might poach some stuff from this, but I've been considering my version for a long time, and I'm not going to toss it out without good reason. It still needs some refinement, IMO, but as I said, I think is a better representation of what we see in the EU.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JironGhrad wrote:
I almost feel like it should be grown as a separate skill under the force power tree.

I disagree. Sense is more than adequate for this purpose. After all, if a GM can declare a Perception or Search roll to see if the characters spot something they may not have been looking for, why should Sense not function similarly? It's not as though non-FS characters walk around with their eyes closed until they decide to make a Perception check, so why would a Jedi consciously shut himself off from the Force until he wanted something from it?

Now, if you wanted to come up with an Advanced Skill that allows a Force user to specialize in Danger Sense (or a sub-set of precognitive powers), then you'd pique my interest...

Quote:
I also sorta feel like the modifiers should maybe apply to the roll itself, rather than to the difficulty.

I fail to see why this would be important.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So if its still a power, why is it not needing to be activated like every other power?

Did you miss the part where it has a Difficulty with modifiers, and still has to be learned? You still have to roll to bring it up; the conditions for exactly how it is brought up are the big difference.

While this may seem heretical to the true believers of the Gospel according to WEG, I firmly believe that Force use absolutely has an unconscious, instinctive element to it. Requiring that powers be declared before they can be used flies in the face of what we see in both the films and the EU. It makes the Force too much like casting spells in D&D, and Danger Sense is one of the worst of the lot.


Then why not let all force powers be instinctively activated.
Get shot, instinctively kick in ignore pain/resist stun.
get hit in melee/brawl, instinctively kick in enhance attribute-str..
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