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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I think with all sorts of explosives there should be that miss factor, not just grenades. And unless it is timed or set to impact how would you get it to go off when you want it to? |
And that is fine for you. Others are less fond of the random location factor. If you like, take my suggestion as directed to them, not you.  |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | We didn't use grenades a lot. The only problems I remember encountering with them were the following... Possible solutions... |
Cool! I think that write-up is an extremely valuable contribution to this thread.
| Bren wrote: | Personally, given real world military history of 1000 years of grenades in one form or another, I can't suspend my disbelief enougth to have a no grenades rule in Star Wars. The fact that we see the Gungans hurling energy balls that look like (though they don't quite act like) grenades just makes the suspension more difficult for me. I don't know that this is entirely a logical contradiction, since I am quite happy to more or less ignore chemical firearms in Star Wars while allowing troops, like those on Jabba's sail barge, that favor melee weapons over blasters (or firearms).
But I think for me space opera requires ray guns and often allows swords, but firearms just seem too hard sci fi to me. (Coincidentally one reason I never found Traveller as mythically inspiring for me as Star Wars.) But enough about me.
Thoughts? |
Non-energy melee weapons do exist in the films, so they get a tiny leg up over grenades for me. 8) I loves me a good ol' fashion sword-fightin' in any genre of entertainment, but Star Wars' Lightsabers, being the ultimate melee weapons, outshine eveything else and make them look lame (as on Jabba's sail barge). Not surprisingly, I'm also opposed to PCs regularly wielding non-Lightsaber melee weapons. I'm ok with PCs perhaps carrying perhaps an emergency knife, maybe even a mostly-ornamental weapon like a pirate's saber that might be whipped out in emergencies, but the only melee combat I'm really into for SW is Lightsaber dueling. Archaic weapons are usually no match for a good blaster at your side kid, so I don't put very many possiblities for melee combat into my adventures. Unarmed brawling comes into play more often then non-Lightsaber melee weapon usage. And Lightsabers are unique melee weapons in that in the right hands they can be useful in reflecting and even re-directing blaster bolts, so they have a place in more combat scenerios than non-energy melee weapons do. Sure, there are still NPCs that carry and use melee weapons in my universe like in the films, but they are mostly ornamental (like Imperial Royal Guards) or looked on as barbaric to most galactic citizens in my SWU, as they seem to me when compared to the mainstay Star Wars weaponry.
I should backpedal a bit and clarify that I didn't really mean that traditional grenades don't exist somewhere in my Star Wars Universe. I just meant that they are archaic so they wouldn't be a part of mainstream galactic civillization. I feel the same way about non-Star Warsy chemical firearms. There are backwater "primitive" planets in which that might be the norm (like Earth). In my game, I have combined the Archaic Guns and Firearms skills into "Archaic Firearms". I feel this better represents that even modern-real-world firearms are archaic to a galactic society as advanced as Star Wars. To us, those old black powder muskets and the like are nothing like modern firearms, but the skills are used so rarely in my game that there is no reason to have two archaic firearm skills. Like grenades, these archaic firearms may exist somewhere in my SWU, mostly on archaic planets wielded by archaic NPCs. In my game, PCs would be hard-pressed to find many of these archaic weapons for sale on space age planets, where they do the bulk of their adventuring.
It should be obvious that I do not like my players to play characters from primitive planets, or to use archaic weapons that often. Not Star Warsy enough for me. Ewoks were supporting characters on one planet that entered into one mission in the film saga, so I just don't see a lot of primitive characters out wondering around the galaxy having adventures.
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
It should be obvious that I do not like my players to play characters from primitive planets, or to use archaic weapons that often. Not Star Warsy enough for me. Ewoks were supporting characters on one planet that entered into one mission in the film saga, so I just don't see a lot of primitive characters out wondering around the galaxy having adventures. |
My old bounty hunter character loved his slug thrower. It shot silently and invisibly, was hard to see on blaster scanners, and was useful for threatening (click-CLICK). There are still some reasons to use a slug thrower in a blaster galaxy.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | My old bounty hunter character loved his slug thrower. It shot silently and invisibly, was hard to see on blaster scanners, and was useful for threatening (click-CLICK). There are still some reasons to use a slug thrower in a blaster galaxy. |
I agree. It's all about upping the tech level. Rather than a chemical fired slugthrower, make it a miniature rail gun (maybe even repulsor-based instead of electromagnetic). You could even turn a pistol into a micro-missile launcher, firing guided or homing bullets with specialized payloads for armor piercing, chemical delivery, homing beacon tags and so on.
A fun thing I have done with primitive characters is to allow them advantages in brawling and melee combat at character creation. It's fun to see an arrogant bad guy with a blaster get diced by a primitive with a sword.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Whill wrote: |
It should be obvious that I do not like my players to play characters from primitive planets, or to use archaic weapons that often. Not Star Warsy enough for me. Ewoks were supporting characters on one planet that entered into one mission in the film saga, so I just don't see a lot of primitive characters out wondering around the galaxy having adventures. |
My old bounty hunter character loved his slug thrower. It shot silently and invisibly, was hard to see on blaster scanners, and was useful for threatening (click-CLICK). There are still some reasons to use a slug thrower in a blaster galaxy. |
Plus many imperial worlds cause they Don't think of them as threatening, don't care if you carry them!!!
| Quote: | | Not surprisingly, I'm also opposed to PCs regularly wielding non-Lightsaber melee weapons. I'm ok with PCs perhaps carrying perhaps an emergency knife, maybe even a mostly-ornamental weapon like a pirate's saber that might be whipped out in emergencies, but the only melee combat I'm really into for SW is Lightsaber dueling. |
So what if someone makes a Rapier rake? Do you hamper them? Slap them down for 'offending your sensibilities on what SW is??
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I agree. It's all about upping the tech level. Rather than a chemical fired slugthrower, make it a miniature rail gun... |
I like the techie names. And I've always hated the term slugthrower. Not sure why, just hate, hate, hate it.
Another personal peeve - I find it odd when some folks (yes Rebel Spec Force book I am looking at you) act as if security detection systems will somehow miss chemically powered weapons e.g. guns. The systems should be set to detect for explosives and should be sensitive enough to pick up gunpowder or whatever propellant is used in the firearm. I know the Spec Force book seemed to think it was easier to conceal guns, but I'm not really buying it. If guns are effective and used they will be detected. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Another personal peeve - I find it odd when some folks (yes Rebel Spec Force book I am looking at you) act as if security detection systems will somehow miss chemically powered weapons e.g. guns. The systems should be set to detect for explosives and should be sensitive enough to pick up gunpowder or whatever propellant is used in the firearm. I know the Spec Force book seemed to think it was easier to conceal guns, but I'm not really buying it. If guns are effective and used they will be detected. |
I agree. Technology exists today that can sniff out modern firearms based on nothing more than the chemical traces of propellant (i.e. gunpowder). I would think that, for a firearm to be less easy to detect, it would have to be based on some form of propellant that doesn't have an energy or chemical component (maybe like a compact slingshot).
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I like the techie names. And I've always hated the term slugthrower. Not sure why, just hate, hate, hate it.
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Me too. It sounds like it should have a swing arm on it...
| Bren wrote: |
Another personal peeve - I find it odd when some folks (yes Rebel Spec Force book I am looking at you) act as if security detection systems will somehow miss chemically powered weapons e.g. guns. The systems should be set to detect for explosives and should be sensitive enough to pick up gunpowder or whatever propellant is used in the firearm. I know the Spec Force book seemed to think it was easier to conceal guns, but I'm not really buying it. If guns are effective and used they will be detected. |
Good point. I'd expect they are easier to hide than blasters, but by no means hard to detect.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | So what if someone makes a Rapier rake? |
The Tapani Sector PC Templates have a Sabre Rake character that uses a lightfoil (lower-powered lightsaber, but in effect still a lightsaber). 
| garhkal wrote: | | Do you hamper them? Slap them down for 'offending your sensibilities on what SW is?? |
How dramatic. You must be a good roleplayer.
Nothing that drastic has ever happened. Players are just like all of us - we are all free to define their own "sensibilities on what SW is". It is OK if they do not agree with mine. Please remember, I'm the "to each his own" guy.
Slap them down? Please.
If you feel that PC creation being a Player-GM collaborative process is hampering, then yes, I "hamper them". I sit down with players making a new PC and we have a two-way discussion about character-concept. We discuss roles in the group and campaign, attributes, skills, background, motivations, character development over the course of the campaign, and yes, even weapons of choice. There may be some things the player brings up that I don't like, and I may counter with alternatives the player rejects.
But by the end we ALWAYS reach an agreement. I have never had a player that decided he didn't want to play if I didn't allow something I hadn't. Players have never told me they were unhappy with the PC we made together, and I never even got the slightest impression of that. However I have had players tell me that I offered good ideas and that they felt our collaboration actually improved upon on their original concept.
If you let your players play any kind of character they want with no limitations, then I am not offended. Whatever works for you and your group. To each GM his own.
For my first few campaigns, I actually choose what templates would be played (and created a couple templates). Then we decided as groups which players would play which characters. Sure the players personalized the PCs , but the PCs and the players didn't feel hampered in any way. I think you'll agree that my collaboration method is much less restrictive to players.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe i was a little heavy handed.. BUT i have played under a gm like you before, who felt anyone who wanted to play low tech 'sucked'... and actively did try to hamper us...
As to the rapier rakes, i was more on about those who used vibro swords, rapiers etc.. NOT saber rakes..
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | As to the rapier rakes, i was more on about those who used vibro swords, rapiers etc.. NOT saber rakes.. |
I got it. You didn't get my use of the emoticon to indicate that if I had a player who wanted to play that, I would probably counter-propose the saber rake instead... completely consistent with everything else I wrote about preferring lightsabers to other melee weapons. A sabre rake is a more Star Warsy version of a 'rapier rake' type of character.
| garhkal wrote: | | Maybe i was a little heavy handed.. BUT i have played under a gm like you before, who felt anyone who wanted to play low tech 'sucked'... and actively did try to hamper us... |
Let me try to make this more clear.
A GM who thinks that anyone who wanted to play a low tech character 'sucked' is NOT a GM like me. You are taking my statements and jumping to drastic conclusions. I never said or even implied that I thought any players in any situation sucked. How could you go from me expressing a preference against primitive PCs in Star Wars to me having a negative reaction to the players themselves? Did you know this game? There is a difference between PCs and players who play them. Me not wanting a primitive PC says absolutely positively NOTHING about my opinion of the player that wanted to play one. I don't think anyone sucks just because they disagree with me.
Did you read my statements about Player-GM collaboration? I respect my players and they respect me. Did you read that there has not been a single case where a player and I didn't find some happy medium? My players and I are always satisfied with the end result of character generation. I realize if they don't have total freedom then you might consider that "actively hampering" but we always work it out together.
I don't try to hinder players. I actively try to encourage, inspire and entertain my players. I view players and myself as all on the same team. Our common goal is to make interesting stories togethers. It's a collaboration from the beginning to the end. My players have a say in the campaign's plot, direction, and types of adventures they like to play. I allow my players to create their own NPC contacts. I even allow my players to create and introduce continuity into the campaign in certain circumstances if it serves the story and fun had by all.
If I truly felt a player 'sucked' for any reason, my first response would be to investigate ways to develop and improve whatever they sucked at, involving the assistance of the other players as appropriate. If we tried and they were deemed beyond improvement, then I just wouldn't ask them to come back. I just wouldn't play with them. But I wouldn't try to actively hamper my players. Actively hindering a player is such negative thing to do, and IMO poor GMing.
Please don't make me out to me a negative GM to players by careless false conclusions.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe its how i read you coming across that made me defensive... if so i apologize..
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Maybe its how i read you coming across that made me defensive... if so i apologize.. |
I don't know about you, but I find myself subconsciously visualizing forum members as looking like their avatar pictures. That, I think, may also color how we read their posts.
So really, Whill, the jig is up. We can see that you're clearly just Emperor Palpitine, sitting behind your laptop on Coruscant, trying to make all us rebels feel bad  !
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | I don't know about you, but I find myself subconsciously visualizing forum members as looking like their avatar pictures. That, I think, may also color how we read their posts. |
If that's so, then how do you visualize garhkal?
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | I don't know about you, but I find myself subconsciously visualizing forum members as looking like their avatar pictures. That, I think, may also color how we read their posts.
So really, Whill, the jig is up. We can see that you're clearly just Emperor Palpitine, sitting behind your laptop on Coruscant, trying to make all us rebels feel bad ! |
Well personally I look exactly like my avatar....except for being 3" taller...and not blond...and having a mustache and goatee...and glasses....and not being 19 yrs old...and having a different style lightsaber that doesn't actually cut anything d&mnit...OK, so maybe I look more like Darth Tyranus. A young, vigorous Darth Tyranus.  And yes, Whill's avatar makes me very, very suspicious. Whill I am so not thinking of my credit card number and security code when you are on the forum. |
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