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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | True, but anti-gravity would reduce the mass acceleration in the direction of gravity, which means the stuff stacked "on top" wouldn't be pressing down on the stuff underneath. |
And mass x g is the weight. |
And if g = 0?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Then you are weightless. But not massless. |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Quote: | | Give the man a cigar! Gold is so dense, yet so soft that past that height it cn't support it's weight and will deform and spread out over the floor. |
Well there goes those giant mounds of dragon gold.  |
Don't depair, greedy one. Gold coins are made of an alloy. Becuase gold is so mallable, some oher metal is added for strength. So the piles of dragon gold are quite possible. Coins would also have more space between then, unlike bars, so the weight would be less, too.
| Bren wrote: | | Mass isn't the problem, weight is and I wouldn't think antigravity reduces mass, but only reduces the effective gravity. |
Sorry, my bad. An anti-gravity field would reduce the gravity not the mass (duh, how'd I mess that up). As weight is mass times gravity the mass would stay constant, but the weight would drop to zero. Thus the gold could be stacked higher. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Then you are weightless. But not massless. |
True, but the original point was that gold could only be stacked so high because the weight pressing down from the top deformed the gold bars on the bottom. In zero-G, regardless of the mass, the weight is 0, so it isn't pressing down on what is below it, so you can stack it as high as you want. Of course, the anti-gravity system had better be reliable...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
And if g = 0? |
Then your cargo would weight nothing. But it would stil have the same mass.So don7t think you can start hauling infinite amounts of cargo.
Acceleration is thrust/mass, not thust/weight, so overloading a freighter would cut the ships accleration and slow it's performance.Basically the ship would probably be less maneuverable, and be putting a greater strain on the engines. Too much mass and the ship might not be able to get off the ground.
Furthermore, volume is still the same, so you'd have to find room to put all that cargo. So no "can of worms" here. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Then your cargo would weight nothing. But it would stil have the same mass.So don7t think you can start hauling infinite amounts of cargo. |
Well, that's where the cargo bay equipped with the vector trap / negative space field generator comes into play. 
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | Then your cargo would weight nothing. But it would stil have the same mass.So don7t think you can start hauling infinite amounts of cargo. |
Well, that's where the cargo bay equipped with the vector trap / negative space field generator comes into play. |
Oodly enough, this has wandered into a houserule I have for overloading a ship. |
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Raven Redstar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:50 am Post subject: |
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This thread is where the original Updated GG6 Cargo Tables were located. I think the image links are dead here, though.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:04 am Post subject: |
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You could always PM atgxtg and see if he has the originals. He pops his head up every now and then, so if he has the Pit on email alerts, it may get through to him.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | You could always PM atgxtg and see if he has the originals. He pops his head up every now and then, so if he has the Pit on email alerts, it may get through to him. |
I might just PM him to find out if he was planning on filling in the blank spots.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10500
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | You could always PM atgxtg and see if he has the originals. He pops his head up every now and then, so if he has the Pit on email alerts, it may get through to him. |
I might just PM him to find out if he was planning on filling in the blank spots. |
Did you PM him? If not, I will. While we are waiting on him to come back, I compiled his explanations of the chart below.
I am not seeing him indicate that the chart in GG6 had errors. He mentioned that he made adjustments to RAW to get the 2% numbers to round off better, but included RAW and his adjustments. Then he discovered that he made errors on his first chart and shared a corrected one.
| atgxtg wrote: | The columns on the left side, under 2% are 2% of the price and would be used to quickly get the change brought about by bargaining rlls. For example if a cargo was worth 5000 credits per ton, each 2% increment would be a + or - 100 credits to the price per ton.
What you do is fine the commodity you are trading under to goods heading, and corss index it with the availably code to get the price. If you are buying you use the supply codes, if you are selling the demand code.
For example, if you are buying Hig Tech (base price 60000 credits/ton) on a Space Age planet (Supply code H) you would cross index the 6000 crdits with the H supply for a price of 5700 credits/ton.
Tthe 5% on the right to help with profits. Since each difference in the Supply and Demand is in 5% increments, this column helps you quickly work out your profits.
Bt the heart of the table is the six colums from goods to +10%.
The rows in orange are for things in GG6 that I adjusted to try and get the 2% numbers to round off better. The orange prices are the prices according to RAW. The differences are minor, but Ikept both prices so people could use he ones they want. |
| atgxtg wrote: | I messedup the table! Sorry, 5700 credits is correct. I supect I cut and pasted something wrong in the spreadshseet. I will correct this.
Orange should be RAW, but I messed up the table! |
| atgxtg wrote: | This should make more sense No wonder had everyone confused.  |
Raven Redstar, do you know if the one you recovered is the corrected one or the original?
| atgxtg wrote: | In fact there is very little here that isn't the same as GG6. I just reorganized it so that it should be easier to handlle the trading.
The Medium column (in bold) is the baseline price. This would be what you use if you were buying the goods at a place where there was a Moderate Supply, or selling them on such a world.
The prices given assume that the freighter captain is buying items in bulk, t wholesale rates, not full price. For example, a ton of "medicine" might contain 100 doses or medicne or 100 medipacs, packed in shipping creates, and worth far more (100 creadits each vs. 42) in stores. That is also the way GG6 does it, and I didn't change it.
Now in the real world, the markup for good varies from product to product, and differernt products require more packing material, or can't be shipped in certain ways. Food and mdicnes could be perishable, and require refrigeration (or carbon freezing), gold can't be stacked more than about .86 meters high, etc. So the prices per ton could vary considerably.
I7ve got a document that I7m working on that gives guidelines for stuff like that, but for the most part, I assume that the "shipper's price" is about 1.5th retail, and that you only get about a half ton of goods in a ton of cargo. The rest being packing material and shipping crates. |
| atgxtg wrote: | Here is the table with generic trade profiles for planets based on thier TECH EVEL. It should match up with the values from GG6. I would have posted this yesterday, but for some strange reason I felt that I needed to check it over one more time. And a good thing I did. Wednesday was not my day for writing tables!
If something doesn't work out for anyone please let me know. |
Something else he shared. I want this too!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Well, of the three documents posted on the other topic, one of them is titled Trade Table (Corrected), and another is titled Speculative Trade Tables (Updated & Corrected). If I had to guess, I'd say he updated and corrected them...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Did you PM him? If not, I will. While we are waiting on him to come back, I compiled his explanations of the chart below.
I am not seeing him indicate that the chart in GG6 had errors. He mentioned that he made adjustments to RAW to get the 2% numbers to round off better, but included RAW and his adjustments. Then he discovered that he made errors on his first chart and shared a corrected one. |
I did send him a PM, I'm still waiting on a response.
The chart in GG6 2nd edition has an an error in the High Tech line. They copied the demand line from metals across the table, even though High Tech has the highest base purchase price, so a seller would sell at a loss no matter where they tried to offload the cargo, which makes no sense. There's maybe 1 or 2 more issues, but that's the main glaring one.
| Quote: | | Raven Redstar, do you know if the one you recovered is the corrected one or the original? |
Yes what I have is the corrected version he did. I was following this thread very closely because I was prepping to run my Criminal Enterprises game for a large group, and it was going to be a crew trying to make money any way they could.
| Quote: | | Something else he shared. I want this too! |
This is the supply and demand section of the PDF I shared, so you have it already!
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | The chart in GG6 2nd edition has an an error in the High Tech line. They copied the demand line from metals across the table, even though High Tech has the highest base purchase price, so a seller would sell at a loss no matter where they tried to offload the cargo, which makes no sense. There's maybe 1 or 2 more issues, but that's the main glaring one. |
Hopefully we will be able to correct everything and get this fully functional.
| Raven Redstar wrote: | | This is the supply and demand section of the PDF I shared, so you have it already! |
Thanks. This whole thing is almost clear as mud now.
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Raven Redstar
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Hopefully we will be able to correct everything and get this fully functional. |
The good news is that because he didn't lay the tables out the same way that GG6 did, he avoided the issue completely. So the table is correct, even if it is a bit tough to read.
| Quote: | | Thanks. This whole thing is almost clear as mud now. |
It does take a little getting used to.
The supply/demand ratings are, and their modifiers:
None (For low tech worlds mostly)
Very Low: +10%/-10%
Low: +5%/-5%
Moderate: Standard cost (100%)
High: -5%/+5%
Very High: -10%/+10%
You match the rating with the planet's Tech level: found in Galaxy Guide 6. If the character is buying you check the supply, selling check the demand. GG6 replaces the bargain values with increments of 2% instead of the to 10% - 300% from the core book. Because we're dealing in wholesale bulk sales.
I guess the table without the instructions is kind of difficult to read. Even with the instructions it's tough.
So, the bargain adjustments should probably be added into the PDF as well as the sample luxury items... I'll go to my source document and make the additions, too bad I don't have access to the original table, I could make everything match.
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