Corrected Executor

Gry Sarth · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:37 am Post subject:

It seems I didn't make it clear enough that I have already acknowledged many posts ago the vailidity of changing the Executor's size. WEG was wrong, I can accept that. I'm just trying to figure out the best way of fixing this with the least amount of stress on the continuity.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

Pel · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

I don't know that there is a way to do that, Gry. It seems there are two schools of thought, each believing in the merits of their own position. Evidence or no, like much of what is discussed here it comes down to personal opinions and what works best for a given campaign.

In the grand scheme of roleplaying, does it truly matter if the Executor is 8 km or 18? Not a bit. Even at it's smallest, the ship is exponentially larger than anything the players or their NPC pals can reasonably get their hands on, and will most likely obliterate them if they stick around.

Grandiose vessels like Executor, Eclipse, and Sovereign are not only flagships, they are symbols of Imperial might intended to inspire terror and obedience through sheer size and firepower.

I'm reminded of a quote, but am unsure from whom it originates:

"If you're in hell, does it matter whether the fires that burn you are a million degrees or a billion?"

Food for thought.
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Gry Sarth · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject:

Yes, you are very correct. With things like this, so utterly huge that they dwarf whatever you can throw at them, the stats don't really matter. Whether the Super has 10D hull or 20D hull, you're still not going to be able to punch through....

It's really just a matter of setting the record straight. Which is exactly why I talked about "fixing it with the least amount of stress". If the stats themselves won't affect the game that much, then why not leave them as they are and just correct the size?
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

Jedi Skyler · Moff Joined: 07 Sep 2005 Posts: 8440

Pel, just remember that Gry here is one of our expert statslingers. He's been invaluable in supplying us with fan-based works of art in the form of several superb sourcebooks. If he's pursuing the final, be-all, end-all stats or descriptions or [insert data bit here], it's because it's simply in his nature to pursue these things as relentlessly as he can. He is a very conscientious worker, and is simply looking to make sure things are right so everyone can benefit. He's not trying to tick anyone off, or beat a dead horse. He's just being the Gry we all know and love. Wink

And I like that quote! A very good point there! Laughing

Pel · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:

Many thanks. I'm still not sure where I read that....

Anyway, no worries. I've been absolutely impressed by the quality of discussion here by everyone, with special emphasis to those of extraordinary superior rank (yourself and Gry Sarth among those). From what I've read your contributions are outstanding.

I'm here to share my opinions and have fun, and I certainly appreciate the laudable goal of the One True Answer if for no other reason that it will better the game for everyone.

Excellent debate. Tea and cookies all around. Very Happy

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Firehawk0220 · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

masque · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject:

The only reason I wouldn't increase the length of the Eclipse is because it is specifically stated in Dark Empire (comic, not WEG sourcebook) to be 10 miles long. That translates to 16.09 km. I think the superlaser issue can be explained by miniaturization and the increased width and height of the Eclipse class. I don't think the laser has to be a linear shaft, in other words. The Sovereign class doesn't worry me at all, as that was something invented by WEG which doesn't even appear in the comic.
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Firehawk0220 · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject:

Gry Sarth · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject:

But don't you think the writer of Dark Empire created his Eclipse vessel based off the Executor. I would imagine he thought something like: "Ok, now I need a flagship for the reborn Emperor. A Star Destroyer, but one as big and massive as the fans have never seen. How long was Vader's Star Destrooyer, this one has to blow that one completely out of the water (checks Lucasfilms archives, or failing that, the next official source, WEG) Ah, 8 Km long... alright that's pretty huge, but mine's gonna dwarf it. I think I'll make it, uh... 10 miles long! And massive at that! Yeah, that'll put the fear of God into those Rebels."

My point is, if he knew the Executor to measure 19 Km, he would have said the Eclipse was larger.....
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

Firehawk0220 · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject:

masque · Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject:

It depends on who he asked for the info. The model makers and Lucasfilm knew the Executor was supposed to be about 11 miles long, and the proportions in the films show this. I don't know what he used as his source material, or if stats for the Executor-class even mattered to the writer. He may have just thought "10 miles is HUGE!" and left it at that. The way to settle it would be if there is a picture of an Eclipse and Executor class in Dark Empire, but I don't think there is.

I know it's a screw up. But it's a matter of sources. The comic is the primary source for the size of the Eclipse, not the WEG book. That establishes the canonical length. The stats for the Executor-class do seem to need adjusting if one wants it to be canonical. We now have a corrected canonical length for the Executor class. The comments I've made previously about the superlaser and a possible length limit on these types of starship are simply an attempt to reconcile the canonical sources while eliminating the need for the unnecessary work of stat conversion. I'm certainly not going to prevent anyone from using any stats they want in their game. There are certain things that are canonical that I don't use or that I flat out contradict. I just don't view my interpretations as canon.
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Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

garhkal · Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:30 am Post subject:

I wouldn't mind seeing the soverign staying at it's current size, but i don't feel the eclipse needs doubling in size, just adding a few miles to the 11 of the executor would be good..
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Firehawk0220 · Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:06 am Post subject:

Scrawprin · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:

For reference (or perhaps I overlooked it), here is the STAR WARS Databank entry for the Executor.

And the Technical Commentaries, I love that site because it helped me prove both to myself and others that I'm not losing my mind that WEG didn't have their facts together completely... A 15 meter AT-AT? Hmmpf. Almost worse than the Executor discrepency.
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Firehawk0220 · Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject:

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