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Obi-Wan Kenobi [Disney Plus series]
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
Whill wrote:
In both canons, the character of Obi-Wan is only 57 during ANH. That's too young and just doesn't work for me. But he was 25 in TPM and already late for typical human promotion to knighthood as it is, so I just couldn't imagine making him any older in TPM.

This is a common problem in modern Star Wars. Part of why we liked it was because it left enough facts open ended to let us play and make things up.

This is less of a problem in modern canon because Disney canon has less supporting fluff/continuity than under the EU. This particular problem was Lucas' own doing when came up with the canon timeline after he plotted out the PT. It was important to him for symbolic reasons for Anakin to have spent equal number of years on the light side and dark side. He also had a specific requirement for Anakin's age in TPM (the most impact his attachment to his mother would have on him, based on childhood development science). Lucas' particular timeline created the problem with Obi-Wan's age.

But it wasn't much a problem for me because I came up with a simple solution. I see no reasons why the Separatist War between AotC and RotS couldn't be two years longer, no reasons why there couldn't be an extra year in between RotS and ANH, and no strict prohibitions on there being an extra year between TESB and RotJ. Anakin and Obi-Wan's canon ages in TPM are preserved, Obi-Wan is now a full 60 years old in ANH, and Anakin still spends the same amount of his life on the light and dark sides (25 years each instead of 23 years each).

Quote:
As more and more of those gaps get filled in it's losing it's utility for DIY hobbies and those facts are going to conflict with more and more audience members personal impressions of things in the movies.

When I was little I thought Emperor had used Sci-fi technology and the dark side to stay alive older than any real-life human has ever lived to be.

I have no problem with him being 90 in RotJ, what he is in my SWU. In canon is he is a couple years younger.

What you seem to be referring to is really just the fact that the film franchise has continued beyond the classic trilogy. Not really a modern issue since it began in the 90s. Lucas only had vague ideas about the prequels until the mid-90s when he committed to making the PT, and before the PT he had strict rules for publishing to stay away from the era, for obvious reasons. The end result wasn't perfect but the franchise is a lot richer for it.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

What you seem to be referring to is really just the fact that the film franchise has continued beyond the classic trilogy.


I like Rogue One and the new live action TV shows.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
This is a common problem in modern Star Wars...

Whill wrote:
What you seem to be referring to is really just the fact that the film franchise has continued beyond the classic trilogy.

I like Rogue One and the new live action TV shows.

If you are just talking about just the modern Star Wars that you like, than it isn't really "a common problem". You are talking about your problem. Got it.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
If you are just talking about just the modern Star Wars that you like, than it isn't really "a common problem". You are talking about your problem. Got it.


Between the prequels and the sequels it's a common problem. For people who liked the one but not the other it's just a newer problem. The sequels (I'd argue in resurrecting Palpatine among other things) open some really weird rifts in the corpus of work.

At any rate I'm going too far off the thread topic. I finally got a chance to watch the new trailer. I'm a little concerned that I don't see Favreau or Filoni in the credits. But the director is from The Mandalorian so that's good.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 4:01 pm    Post subject: Obi-Wan Kenobi [Disney Plus series] Reply with quote

The primary Obi-Wan Kenobi screenwriter took inspiration from the sources that Star Wars creator George Lucas was originally inspired by, including Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Samurai history and culture, and Buddhism.

TauntaunScout wrote:
I finally got a chance to watch the new trailer. I'm a little concerned that I don't see Favreau or Filoni in the credits. But the director is from The Mandalorian so that's good.

Dave Filoni is the Executive Creative Director of Lucasfilm, so his overarching leadership is involved to a degree. Jon Favreau is is Executive Producer of all the post-RotJ shows on Disney+, so his focus is that timeframe. However, both of them were shown the preliminary scripts of the Obi-Wan show and they gave feedback. The director felt her work on The Mandalorian was the best training she could have for the Kenobi series, learning from that series' executive producers Favreau and Filoni.
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi [Disney Plus series] Reply with quote

With Ewan MacGregor and Joel Edgerton, the acting alone might carry the show pretty far.
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Grimace
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2022 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:


This is a common problem in modern Star Wars. Part of why we liked it was because it left enough facts open ended to let us play and make things up. As more and more of those gaps get filled in it's losing it's utility for DIY hobbies and those facts are going to conflict with more and more audience members personal impressions of things in the movies.

When I was little I thought Emperor had used Sci-fi technology and the dark side to stay alive older than any real-life human has ever lived to be.


I kind of agree. That's why I typically just tell the players "the Star Wars we're playing is based more on the movies than on all of the books, as there's no way I'm going to keep all of that aligned and in sequence. So if you've read it in a book, a comic, or seen it on streaming, chances are I may or may not use it, but don't ever rely on that stuff for verifying anything you want to do. This also applies to any of the new sequels, or movies made after Return of the Jedi."
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:

I kind of agree. That's why I typically just tell the players "the Star Wars we're playing is based more on the movies than on all of the books, as there's no way I'm going to keep all of that aligned and in sequence. So if you've read it in a book, a comic, or seen it on streaming, chances are I may or may not use it, but don't ever rely on that stuff for verifying anything you want to do. This also applies to any of the new sequels, or movies made after Return of the Jedi."


That's more what I'm getting at yeah. Even without the books and stuff we now theoretically have to keep track of:

11 films
2 (soon 3) TV shows
2 Cartoons

That's a ton of runtime. Hence for my games I can't really accept anything beyond the OT as more than aesthetic inspiration.

And this matters beyond us. When I was a kid we preferred to play Star Wars over other things because it was very open ended compared to say, Willow. We could make up almost anything in our play stories and not conflict with the movies. I think this matters for whether or not another generation will take up the franchise as a lifelong hobby.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimace wrote:
I kind of agree. That's why I typically just tell the players "the Star Wars we're playing is based more on the movies than on all of the books, as there's no way I'm going to keep all of that aligned and in sequence. So if you've read it in a book, a comic, or seen it on streaming, chances are I may or may not use it, but don't ever rely on that stuff for verifying anything you want to do. This also applies to any of the new sequels, or movies made after Return of the Jedi."

Sure. This likewise is not a problem for my game. I'm very clear up front that the only "canon" in my game are the six Lucas movies and the two Disney prequels (and my SWU might even slightly tweak those). A lot of WEG but not necessarily all of it is canon. Possibly altered versions of a handful of novels and comics may take place in my SWU. If players operate on meta-knowledge of the franchise, they may find out that some fluff about a species they thought was true turned out to be wrong in my SWU. This perfectly represents how people in real life think they know something they are actually wrong about. It's ok for PCs to be incorrect sometimes. My game takes place in one universe in the Star Wars Multiverse. I haven't had any players that had any trouble with this concept.
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Ziz
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this canon/non-canon debate is also why Disney de-canonized the entire EU prior to making the ST. It's not that they didn't like any of the material - there's been bits and pieces of it that have come back in other projects since then. Their problem was that there was just so damn much of it that keeping track of it and putting it all in order was becoming a nightmare. And even if it could be all kept in order, they didn't want to be limited by it and forced to squeeze their stories in between the cracks.

By saying "We're only paying attention to 'this' section of SW history, you're giving yourself breathing room to create new stories.
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TauntaunScout
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ziz wrote:
All this canon/non-canon debate is also why Disney de-canonized the entire EU prior to making the ST. It's not that they didn't like any of the material - there's been bits and pieces of it that have come back in other projects since then. Their problem was that there was just so damn much of it that keeping track of it and putting it all in order was becoming a nightmare. And even if it could be all kept in order, they didn't want to be limited by it and forced to squeeze their stories in between the cracks.

By saying "We're only paying attention to 'this' section of SW history, you're giving yourself breathing room to create new stories.


Yeah. You don't want to release some big budget movie and have every poindexter saying "Actually, Wedge couldn't have been there, according to the comic book that came with the special edition IG-88 action figure, he was at Dantooine until at least 20 minutes AFTER the movie ended!". So I totally get resetting the canon in that regard. They took it too far the other way though.



EDIT: If you have seen the show and want to talk about it ––> Obi-Wan Kenobi [SPOILERS ALLOWED]
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