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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Defending against melee or brawling attacks is going to require some degree of active countering (parrying). Exactly where the line between the two should be drawn should be kept vague to allow for a certain degree of conceptual overlap.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | That’s going to be something of a grey area, as actually grappling someone to tie up the gun would fall more under Brawling. I’m formulating a close combat system based on an expansion of Dueling Blades that covers Brawling, and I have a preliminary concept for purely defensive martial forms to be able to “power block”: defend in a way that causes damage, so a weapon lock / bind option would be a logical step. |
Grappling to control the weapon, sure, that could fall under brawling. But shoving the barrel away? That falls under Defense.
FWIW, Savage Worlds has a similar mechanic in it. Normally, the difficulty to hit is determined by range... but if you're at point-blank, it's determined by the defender's Parry.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16388
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Grappling to control the weapon, sure, that could fall under brawling. But shoving the barrel away? That falls under Defense. |
Agreed. As I said, there needs to be a degree of overlap between Attack and Defense depending on what the character is trying to accomplish.
| Quote: | | FWIW, Savage Worlds has a similar mechanic in it. Normally, the difficulty to hit is determined by range... but if you're at point-blank, it's determined by the defender's Parry. |
I like this, especially when combined with the existing Difficulty modifiers for armed vs. unarmed combat. Of course, it also works better with a universal Range Band system, but I digress...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16388
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | an alternate method of doing this would be to make Dodge an Advanced Skill, with Running / Agility as a Prerequisite. That way, the ability to avoid ranged attacks isn't something that just comes naturally, but is trainable insofar as training someone how to "maneuver" in such a way as to make them more difficult to hit. |
| Naaman wrote: | It's a tough one to simulate (for me) as a dexterity skill. If anything, in reality it would fall under the tactics skill.
But being quick is certainly helpful.
In case any of this helps:
To minimize the chance of being hit a person must be able to quickly read the battlefield and take advantage of what it offers, both for cover/concealment and for field of view/line of sight.
Knowing your surroundings is a big part of it. Being able to maneuver quickly to a position of dominance also matters, but I'd think somewhat less so than the situational and spatial awareness component.
Lastly, take advantage of the opponent's perceptions, assumptions, and limitations. When risking exposure to take a shot, minimize exposure as much as possible, and when peeking around your cover, do so from unexpected places. If you are tall, kneel down and peer out below your opponent's eye level, etc. |
I'm mulling over this again. Naaman's point of "minimizing the chances of being hit" requiring training is well taken, but there is sufficient evidence of portfolio overlap in other attributes and skills that it wouldn't be out of place (or at most a minor irritant) to simply fold the necessary training detailed above into the training required by Advanced Skills.
So the possible premise here is, make Dodge an Advanced Skill, with Running / Agility as a Prerequisite, but as per the earlier discussion about when Dodge is applicable, only allow the Dodge skill to be rolled in combination with a Movement action (with applicable MAPs). And of course, the restriction on not being able to perform other actions when moving All-Out would still apply, so while moving at All-Out would provide some bonuses to avoid getting hit due simply to being a fast moving target, the character would need to make a choice between Speed or Evasion.
Plus, the Dodger would only get to add his Advanced Skill dice roll to the Difficulty to avoid getting hit, minus any applicable MAPs. So Dodge could still potentially be useful, but would be greatly scaled back from how it currently exists. In fact, I may need to start a new topic for it...
EDIT: New Topic
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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