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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1448
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 Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Scout Armor doesn't have a DEX penalty. +2 pips STR, but no DEX penalty.
Zero G Armor is +3D STR but only -1D DEX.
Boba Fett's Armor is +4D STR for physical attacks, +3D STR for energy attacks. And, there is no DEX penalty.
Vader's Armor is +1D STR physical, +2 pips STR energy, with no DEX penalty.
Looks like it's all over the map. Anything's possible, within reason. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1902
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Looking all over on various "wearing and moving in armor" videos, books and the lot, I am one that actually know from experience and information that armors that may appear extremely bulky and heavy are surprinigly light to wear and offer almost unhindered movement.
for a knight it would be routing to do backflips, cartwheels and roundhouse kicks in a suit of full plate.
Same goes , and maybe even more so with the chianmail, especially if weaing a belt with it.
So, Seeing actual humans dance and do all of the above in stormtrooper armors (not canon or star wars) I would argue a movement penalty is misplaced and only in place in SWD6 or other systems given some unrealistic penalty to movemnet.
I think the reason is both the need for some form of mechanical balance in the system, after all if the armor only has benefits, then everyone would wear armor and only that.
Well the warriors did back then........and in Star Wars, well mostly Soldiers/Warriors do wear Armor, most of the heroes we see actually don't.
This is part of the reason why I allow for players and npc to get used to the armor over time, and within not too long they do negate the penalty.
Also as I saw someone state here, any penalty should apply to the skills only, or certain skills only, and not the attribute |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10499
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: Armor Proficiency |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Bringing this back up, cause Whill forgot it existed... |
Thanks, garhkal. I actually remembered that the discussion existed but just didn't find it. I'm rather embarrassed I PMed you for help now because I'm pretty sure I did come across this thread in my search but stopped at the OP because it only asked about armor-related specializations to other skills. Reading the entire thread I am sure this is conversation I was remembering because it went way beyond the OP and discussed several possible armor proficiency rules to reduce or eliminate the Dex penalty. I was going to post a new thread but since you bumped this one, I'll just reply here.
| garhkal wrote: | So how do You handle pcs buying off armor dex penalties?
A) they can't do it
B) it costs XYZ # of CP per pip
C) It costs money, like as in when modifying the armor
D) something else
When they do so, does it
A) exist for that suit of armor only
B) all suits of that specific type of armor
C) other. |
Altering the suit of armor is not what I was thinking of. I was thinking of characters having the ability or not, but yes a consideration is then is it for all armor or only for a certain kind of armor, etc.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Per the RAW, using skill prerequisites would allow he character to stack his Armor Training with the prerequisites, which is a rather unrealistic return for just learning to work around the weight and bulk of the armor. |
Not necessarily. I've added a lot of prerequisites, even if bare minimums, to advanced skills. I don't view advanced skills automatically stacking on every use of every prerequisite, so the skill description can specify what can add to what when. So an advanced skill makes a good amount of sense to me.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | WEG has suggested eliminating the Dex penalty for stormtroopers armor because of how much time they spend in it. They even applied it to some stories in an encounter in The Far Orbit Project. What they did't do was provide a mechanic for how it could be earned, either by PCs or NPCs. Honestly, I could go with either an Advanced Skill or a straight CP cost, or even making it part of an Advantage / Disadvantage system. I am, however, partial to higher CP cost methods because I don't something like this should be attained easily. |
I really started thinking about this in my rethinking of stormtrooper stats. If stormtroopers are specifically trained to operate in armor, they should have less or no Dex penalty where other characters without that training would have the penalty with the same suit of armor. The strait CP cost is less appealing to me because that makes this a special mechanic and I would prefer that it use an existing mechanic. I considered the advantage/special ability route which is applicable if it is something that a character has as a part of their background, but that would mean a character would either have it or not at character creation, so it couldn't be learned later or improved which would probably also be more an all or nothing thing. That might work for me.
But an advanced skill seems most appealing to me because it can possible be learned in play, have all armor vs. specific kinds of armor specializations, and have the gradients level of skill. An advanced skill easily allows the GM to prevent it from being easy to obtain and improve the skill because that can be controlled through how difficult it is to find a teacher willing to train the character. That's where I'm leaning right now.
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: |
Is it allowed by RAW? |
Nothing i've seen in the RAW actually spells it out, but there are (as was mentioned earlier in the thread), some mentionings of storm troopers who've gotten so used to their armor they no longer HAVE a penalty with it.
| Naaman wrote: | | If I were to do this, it would be limited. Also, I feel that the penalty should not be to the Dexterity attribute, but rather to all skills that represent the wearer's ability to move/manouver. Therefore, the penalties would apply to dodge, running, climb/jump, and double (or more) the penalty to swimming. |
The penalty applies to Both the dex attribute and all skills under the Dex.. |
Yes. I figured that was implied in my wording, tbh. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Scout Armor doesn't have a DEX penalty. +2 pips STR, but no DEX penalty. |
Most armor as light as scout, doesn't qualify for having a dex penalty though.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Zero G Armor is +3D STR but only -1D DEX.
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I've always felt it should have been more like 2d penalty for Zero g..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Boba Fett's Armor is +4D STR for physical attacks, +3D STR for energy attacks. And, there is no DEX penalty. |
Which is why i don't allow mando armor.. TO bloody uber.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Vader's Armor is +1D STR physical, +2 pips STR energy, with no DEX penalty. |
Well, its not that more than a combat jumpsuit in protective value, and a CJ also has no dex penalty..
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ugh... Fett's armor is lame. There are many ways they could hve made his armor special without making it impervious. To me it just feels like they weren't thinking creatively. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16386
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Ugh... Fett's armor is lame. There are many ways they could hve made his armor special without making it impervious. To me it just feels like they weren't thinking creatively. |
Hint: Shoot at his legs.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Even better: just blindfold yourself and accidentally bump into him....  |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:29 am Post subject: |
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LOL
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | Ugh... Fett's armor is lame. There are many ways they could hve made his armor special without making it impervious. To me it just feels like they weren't thinking creatively. |
Hint: Shoot at his legs. |
Or his arms!
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | Ugh... Fett's armor is lame. There are many ways they could hve made his armor special without making it impervious. To me it just feels like they weren't thinking creatively. |
Hint: Shoot at his legs. |
Or his arms! |
The 2E write-up for his armor provides cover for his torso, head and arms, but NOT his legs.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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Wonder how Boba would react to the first few rounds being attack with paintballs...
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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Posts: 698
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Probably getting eaten by a Sarlacc. It seems to be his go-to move. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | Ugh... Fett's armor is lame. There are many ways they could hve made his armor special without making it impervious. To me it just feels like they weren't thinking creatively. |
Hint: Shoot at his legs. |
Or his arms! |
The 2E write-up for his armor provides cover for his torso, head and arms, but NOT his legs. |
Strange, when the visuals for him, clearly shows his arms are not protected..
His shoulder area has those pads, but the rest of the arm just has cloth coverings much like his legs do.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Strange, when the visuals for him, clearly shows his arms are not protected..
His shoulder area has those pads, but the rest of the arm just has cloth coverings much like his legs do. |
His forearms are covered (his weapon bracers), but stormtrooper armor certainly does seem to provide better coverage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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