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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Experimental house rule: Beginner's Luck |
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Beginner's Luck
Cost (in CP): 5? 10? (Should there be a cost? Or should I just let them begin the game with it? I would have to grant them extra CP to start with.)
Effect: A player character (PC) who has Beginner's Luck gets another wild die (not an "extra" die but just a second Wild Die taken from the PC's die codes; someone rolling 4D+1 still rolls 4D+1, just two of those dice are Wild) until he or she reaches 100 ACP (Awarded Character Points*). Additionally, such a character suffers no penalty for a roll of a 1 on either of his or her Wild Dice, unless both come up as 1's, in which case the PC still succeeds, but the success is flawed somehow (e.g. a fix on a starship breaks down after a while, or a blaster hit that does less damage, etc.). Once a character reaches 100 ACP, he or she loses Beginner's Luck.
* Awarded Character Points is a cumulative tally of the CP that a PC receives in the course of regular play. The GM should keep track of it as well as the player behind the PC.
(Should it be 100 ACP? More? Less?)
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Last edited by Error on Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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That is very potent. A free bonus wild die that does NOT hamper you, and you also get to ignore the other wild die being a 1, and it lasts till they get 100 earned CP??
At MOST i would see this being a: Very first use of a skill, the PC can reroll his 1 on a wild die, but if it still comes up a 1, he's stuck with it..
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Error
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree strongly that it is a potent ability. The math says it adds an average of 3.5 to a given roll roughly 33% of the time. It isn't another die added, just one more of the PC's regular dice becomes wild. The ability is not broken (it does not freakishly unbalance gameplay) and is designed to get new players into that same rewards mindset that gets fools addicted to World of Warcraft. In my games, 100 ACP is nothing. It's really more like 50 anyway, because my players love to spend CP on rolls (CP spent on rolls still counts as ACP). It's their fault if they don't save CP for increasing skills. I would say four to ten adventures (less if they're long) before Beginner's Luck falls off. After that, they're in the cold hard land of regular Wild Dice.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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What you might do instead is have them have two wild die... and they choose the best of the two. So, someone with 4D Blaster would roll 5 dice, and would pick the better of the two "wild" die. If both come up a 1, well, then there's the problem.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | I disagree strongly that it is a potent ability. The math says it adds an average of 3.5 to a given roll roughly 33% of the time. It isn't another die added, just one more of the PC's regular dice becomes wild. The ability is not broken (it does not freakishly unbalance gameplay) and is designed to get new players into that same rewards mindset that gets fools addicted to World of Warcraft. In my games, 100 ACP is nothing. It's really more like 50 anyway, because my players love to spend CP on rolls (CP spent on rolls still counts as ACP). It's their fault if they don't save CP for increasing skills. I would say four to ten adventures (less if they're long) before Beginner's Luck falls off. After that, they're in the cold hard land of regular Wild Dice. |
How many CP are you awarding where they can earn 50cp in 4 games? Heck even 10 games is a stretch BTB for 5cp a game..
As to the unbalancing aspect, its the whole you get 2 wild die, and ignore the 1 aspec only if BOTH come up 1s.. where as you still roll an additional die if either's a 6 i find out there..
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Error
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Error wrote: | | I disagree strongly that it is a potent ability. The math says it adds an average of 3.5 to a given roll roughly 33% of the time. It isn't another die added, just one more of the PC's regular dice becomes wild. The ability is not broken (it does not freakishly unbalance gameplay) and is designed to get new players into that same rewards mindset that gets fools addicted to World of Warcraft. In my games, 100 ACP is nothing. It's really more like 50 anyway, because my players love to spend CP on rolls (CP spent on rolls still counts as ACP). It's their fault if they don't save CP for increasing skills. I would say four to ten adventures (less if they're long) before Beginner's Luck falls off. After that, they're in the cold hard land of regular Wild Dice. |
How many CP are you awarding where they can earn 50cp in 4 games? Heck even 10 games is a stretch BTB for 5cp a game..
As to the unbalancing aspect, its the whole you get 2 wild die, and ignore the 1 aspec only if BOTH come up 1s.. where as you still roll an additional die if either's a 6 i find out there.. |
The entire intention is to give n00bs more power for a while but only by a small margin. An extra 3.5 per roll (only 33% of the time, too) is nothing. Remember, the Wild Die is an optional rule to begin with.
So feel free to completely ignore this/don't use it if you don't like it, as it's under the House Rules section and is my own personal creation. It's also an early version, so if the ability turns out to be unfun, over- or undercosted, too long or too short in duration...these are all things that can be amended after testing.
Furthermore, 50 CP after 10-12 hours of play is nothing, particularly with a group not shy on using CP on rolls. Also, I said 4-10 gaming sessions, not 4 only. Not trying to be rude, but if all you're going to do is proclaim: "This looks overpowered to me! You shouldn't use it and you give out too many CP!" that's not super helpful.
| MrNexx wrote: | | What you might do instead is have them have two wild die... and they choose the best of the two. So, someone with 4D Blaster would roll 5 dice, and would pick the better of the two "wild" die. If both come up a 1, well, then there's the problem. |
This is interesting but I feel ultimately new players would be confused by it. (I probably won't use the ability as I wrote it above with n00bs to RP'ing or SWD6.) Veterans, sure, no problem...but those precious minutes where you need to make a first SWD6 impression have to be as perfect as they can be...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Even in sparks, assuming no RP award for 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in our set modules, at most you get 7cp for a 4 hr session. So earning 50cp would be more like 32hrs...
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Error
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I've been doing some thinking about another way to capture Beginner's Luck, and this is what I have come up with:
Instead of another Wild Die, what if I made a roll of a 1 on the original Wild Die into the same as a 6, as long as that PC has Beginner's Luck? As in, say the PC rolls a 1 on his/her Wild Die. Instead of subtracting it and the next highest die, he/she then gets to add that 1 to the total of the roll as usual, then gets to roll that die again and add that to the roll too, ad infinitum. This way there is only change in the functionality of the extant Wild Die and no confusing additions (and eventual subtractions) to grok. (Look up grok if you don't know the term.)
EDIT: I am also thinking of reducing the ACP cap at which a PC can no longer have Beginner's Luck to 50 or 75. 100 is a lot.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | I've been doing some thinking about another way to capture Beginner's Luck, and this is what I have come up with:
Instead of another Wild Die, what if I made a roll off a 1 on the original Wild Die into the same as a 6, as long as that PC has Beginner's Luck? As in, the PC rolls 1 on his/her Wild Die. Instead of subtracting it and the highest other die, he/she then gets to add that 1 to the total of the roll as usual, then gets to roll that die again and add that to the role too, ad infinitum. This way there is only change in the functionality of the original Wild Die and no confusing additions (and eventual subtractions) to grok. (Look up grok if you don't know the term.) |
I think that's a fair bit better.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | I've been doing some thinking about another way to capture Beginner's Luck, and this is what I have come up with:
Instead of another Wild Die, what if I made a roll of a 1 on the original Wild Die into the same as a 6, as long as that PC has Beginner's Luck? As in, say the PC rolls a 1 on his/her Wild Die. Instead of subtracting it and the next highest die, he/she then gets to add that 1 to the total of the roll as usual, then gets to roll that die again and add that to the roll too, ad infinitum. This way there is only change in the functionality of the extant Wild Die and no confusing additions (and eventual subtractions) to grok. (Look up grok if you don't know the term.)
EDIT: I am also thinking of reducing the ACP cap at which a PC can no longer have Beginner's Luck to 50 or 75. 100 is a lot. |
SO now not only do they explode on a 6, but also a 1?
So basically beginners luck means they will never critically fail in essence...
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | SO now not only do they explode on a 6, but also a 1?
So basically beginners luck means they will never critically fail in essence... |
Jesus man give the guy a friggin break. You punching holes in his idea and being a just a real hind end. He said he wanted to integrate something into the mechanics so that his beginning players would be lucky. He doesn't have to use the complication rule if he doesn't want to. He can have his Wild die explode on 1s and 6s if he wants. He can use two Wild dice or whatever mechanic he wants. And the best thing, he doesn't have to justify it.
With that being said, Error, you might just be better off not using the complication mechanic and perhaps having a Destiny Pool mechanic. Which is nothing more than a set amount of Character Points placed in a pool that any of the players may use. Same restrictions apply as to the standard expenditure of Character Points to augment rolls. You could do away with the additional die roll and just give them a +5 modifier as well.
No matter what, its awesome you have players interested and you are taking time to create a setting and adventure for them. Congratulations!
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Random_Axe
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Experimental house rule: Beginner's Luck |
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| Error wrote: | Beginner's Luck
Cost (in CP): 5? 10? (Should there be a cost? Or should I just let them begin the game with it? I would have to grant them extra CP to start with.)
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My suggestion is more simple. (I have no objection to the power of the rule).
First, the PC cost at character-creation is one of the seven startup dice (or equivalent if you use an alternate creation method).
Second, the ability allows the PC to have two wild dice in his skill pool, as you described, but only when rolling for a skill that the player has not improved with other awarded character-points or startup dice.
That way the ability hangs around in perpetuity to represent a possible lucky break for WHATEVER the character is a "beginner" at (ie. whatever he doesn't have experience in). Which leads to my third point:
The ability doesn't go away. Whatever skill roll is called for, if the PC has no dice or pips augmenting the skill, this ability kicks in. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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In that case, if its staying "in perpetuity", and with there not being a downside to rolling those 2 wild dice, why would anyone with beginner's luck even raise skills that are not already improved??
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Error
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | With that being said, Error, you might just be better off not using the complication mechanic and perhaps having a Destiny Pool mechanic. Which is nothing more than a set amount of Character Points placed in a pool that any of the players may use. Same restrictions apply as to the standard expenditure of Character Points to augment rolls. You could do away with the additional die roll and just give them a +5 modifier as well.
No matter what, its awesome you have players interested and you are taking time to create a setting and adventure for them. Congratulations! |
Destiny Pool is a really intriguing idea and I like it a lot. Is it something in the RAW somewhere? Or an import from another game? It's really quite novel; I would never have thought of it on my own.
How many CP would a beginning game's Destiny Pool have? Is there a formula that has worked for you? By "beginning game" I mean like the first three to five adventures, where the characters are all uberweak still. My logistical self is estimating 0.75 per player (all fractions rounded up).
Are characters allowed to use any Destiny Pool dice left at the end of the adventure to improve their characters? Or does the pool drain at the end, and they might as well use it all? I imagine you could alternate between the two if you wanted, or award like 1 CP to each PC for each 1 CP left in the Destiny Pool.
Either way I love it.
| Random_Axe wrote: | | Error wrote: | Beginner's Luck
Cost (in CP): 5? 10? (Should there be a cost? Or should I just let them begin the game with it? I would have to grant them extra CP to start with.)
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My suggestion is more simple. (I have no objection to the power of the rule).
First, the PC cost at character-creation is one of the seven startup dice (or equivalent if you use an alternate creation method).
Second, the ability allows the PC to have two wild dice in his skill pool, as you described, but only when rolling for a skill that the player has not improved with other awarded character-points or startup dice.
That way the ability hangs around in perpetuity to represent a possible lucky break for WHATEVER the character is a "beginner" at (ie. whatever he doesn't have experience in). Which leads to my third point:
The ability doesn't go away. Whatever skill roll is called for, if the PC has no dice or pips augmenting the skill, this ability kicks in. |
I like this idea a lot, particularly the cost of 1D of beginning skill dice. Makes me want to create other similarly-costed options. The more sandboxish I can make character creation, the better. Thank you for suggesting it...I may just incorporate some or all of the main idea in further iterations.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | Destiny Pool is a really intriguing idea and I like it a lot. Is it something in the RAW somewhere? Or an import from another game? It's really quite novel; I would never have thought of it on my own. |
Its a mechanic from EotE with the serial numbers ground off and made to work with D6.
| Quote: | How many CP would a beginning game's Destiny Pool have? Is there a formula that has worked for you? By "beginning game" I mean like the first three to five adventures, where the characters are all uberweak still. My logistical self is estimating 0.75 per player (all fractions rounded up). | Quote: |
Yes there is a formula. Typically 3 Character Points per player, 1/3 go to the GM or Dark Side, the other 2/3 go to the players or Light Side. As for how often do you change up the Destiny Pool? That is up to the GM, but I suggest only at the end of an adventure. Not a session, the actual adventure.
This mechanic lets the GM set how many points he wants to include and therefore how heroic of luck the players are. You could as a GM say there are 5 Character Points per player.
Keep in mind, everytime a player uses a Character Point it is removed from the Light Side and placed on the Dark Side. Everytime the GM uses a point, it is removed from the Dark Side and placed on the Light Side.
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Are characters allowed to use any Destiny Pool dice left at the end of the adventure to improve their characters? Or does the pool drain at the end, and they might as well use it all? I imagine you could alternate between the two if you wanted, or award like 1 CP to each PC for each 1 CP left in the Destiny Pool. |
No, this is strictly a mechanic to allow the players to act heroically or lucky, without having to spend their own Character Points. It also establishes a larger pool in which everyone can dip in to.
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