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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject: Lightsaber as Advanced Skill |
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| I think it makes the most sense for lightsaber to be an advanced melee skill. It would add balance to the game, being that a Jedi with a lightsaber is one of the most formidable opponents in the galaxy. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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So, prerequisite for (A)Lightsaber is Melee Combat/Parry 5D? Then the Jedi character rolls their pathetic advanced skill against a difficult difficulty level. Meaning that without a serious investment of CP, they can't even make the basic skill roll to use it. How many sessions/adventures before a Jedi can even get to use their chosen weapon.
I'm sorry, but one problem is that by making lightsaber an advanced skill, you totally bypass the Jedi's Dexterity attribute, meaning that there would be no difference in Jedi with 1D Dex or 5D Dex.
Another, is that Jedi are already saddled with so many Multiple Action Penalties that they can barely function until they've raised their force skills to ridiculously high levels.
I disagree that Jedi need any further nerfing of their abilities. In fact, I feel like we should give Jedi a little bit of a break. They already have the greatest chance of losing their character to the dark side by misbehaving.
In my games, to tone back Jedi, I have moved LS Combat to a single roll skill under Sense with no additional multiple action penalty for leaving it active, however instead of full sense to hit and defense, they get half their sense rounded down as a bonus (minimum 1D) and half their control to damage (minimum 1D). This means that even a high level Jedi knight isn't going to be dropping 18-20D damage with their weapon.
Also, I'm using a version of Dueling Sabers which was posted here, where an attack roll has to hit by 16 or more to have uncapped wound effects. Which better reflects the glancing hits we see in the movies. Instead of beating an opponent by 1 point equates to instant death, a duel may take many rounds for a duelist to whittle down his opponent.
I've even considered applying this system combat wide, meaning that an attacker's skill is just as important as the power of his weapon, which to me makes sense for a skill based game like D6. Not everyone will agree with my choice, but I feel it'll add more drama to the game.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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If you do go with the advanced skill option, seems to me that you would have to get rid of the lightsaber's difficulty and risk of self injury (you can assume that these effects only apply when using the weapon with the melee combat skill).
Also, since advanced skills augment base skills, you would need some means by which to prevent the character from just using the base skill. In other words, you might say that LSC can only be activated if the advanced skill is being used.
Me? I just got rid of LSC as a power. Jedi roll just their ligjtsaber skill, and add control to damage (that effect is automatic, no roll required). They can choose to reduce their damage bonus by 1D in exchange for a +1 to hit, up to the number of dice in control. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14316
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: |
Me? I just got rid of LSC as a power. Jedi roll just their ligjtsaber skill, and add control to damage (that effect is automatic, no roll required). They can choose to reduce their damage bonus by 1D in exchange for a +1 to hit, up to the number of dice in control. |
So a jedi who has LS skill of 8d, 5d control and 4d sense automatically is rolling 12 dice to hit and 10 dice to damage, no power roll needed??
Is that still suffering from MAPS in anyway (like their sense and control both drop by the same # of MAP dice as the LS skill itself)?
Also what about redirecting/blocking blaster bolts??
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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No. Sense does not add to LS. Its just LS. Contol adds to damage, but can be traded on a 1D to 1pip basis. -1D to damage, +1 pip to hit/parry.
Sense (by itself) is rolled to block blasters. Control (by itself) is rolled to redirect blasters that have been blocked successfully by 5 or more. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Alternatively, what if you made Lightsaber Combat an advanced skill of Lightsaber, with the prerequisite that you have at least 1D in both Control and Sense? The LC Advanced skill would work just like any advanced skill... adding its rank to lightsaber attacks and damage... but using only LC for things like deflecting blaster bolts and the light.
It avoids a lot of the problems with the LC power as written.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting angle. Sure as an advanced skill, it costs the same CP to advance as a force skill is without a teacher, but having it that way means you only need to advance ONE skill vice 2 (Control and sense).
BUT that you are only using the (A) LS Combat for blaster bolt defense, is nice.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | That's an interesting angle. Sure as an advanced skill, it costs the same CP to advance as a force skill is without a teacher, but having it that way means you only need to advance ONE skill vice 2 (Control and sense).
BUT that you are only using the (A) LS Combat for blaster bolt defense, is nice. |
It has a few other results, as well.
Consider that, under the core assumption, advancing Lightsaber Combat by advancing either Control or Sense also inherently teaches you a new power... someone who is good at Lightsaber combat will also, by necessity, become excellent at absorbing energy, seeing the future, and all sorts of other skills.
It does make lightsaber users a bit better (since they don't have the multiple skill penalty for keeping up Control, Sense, and using Lightsaber), but it will also make them less able to deflect blasters (since they will be using LSC exclusively).
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“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | So, prerequisite for (A)Lightsaber is Melee Combat/Parry 5D? Then the Jedi character rolls their pathetic advanced skill against a difficult difficulty level. Meaning that without a serious investment of CP, they can't even make the basic skill roll to use it. How many sessions/adventures before a Jedi can even get to use their chosen weapon.
I'm sorry, but one problem is that by making lightsaber an advanced skill, you totally bypass the Jedi's Dexterity attribute, meaning that there would be no difference in Jedi with 1D Dex or 5D Dex.
Another, is that Jedi are already saddled with so many Multiple Action Penalties that they can barely function until they've raised their force skills to ridiculously high levels.
I disagree that Jedi need any further nerfing of their abilities. In fact, I feel like we should give Jedi a little bit of a break. They already have the greatest chance of losing their character to the dark side by misbehaving.
In my games, to tone back Jedi, I have moved LS Combat to a single roll skill under Sense with no additional multiple action penalty for leaving it active, however instead of full sense to hit and defense, they get half their sense rounded down as a bonus (minimum 1D) and half their control to damage (minimum 1D). This means that even a high level Jedi knight isn't going to be dropping 18-20D damage with their weapon.
Also, I'm using a version of Dueling Sabers which was posted here, where an attack roll has to hit by 16 or more to have uncapped wound effects. Which better reflects the glancing hits we see in the movies. Instead of beating an opponent by 1 point equates to instant death, a duel may take many rounds for a duelist to whittle down his opponent.
I've even considered applying this system combat wide, meaning that an attacker's skill is just as important as the power of his weapon, which to me makes sense for a skill based game like D6. Not everyone will agree with my choice, but I feel it'll add more drama to the game. |
Excellent points... I've always just thought that lightsaber should be linked somehow to melee (I use the single melee skill for attack and parry). Going the opposite direction and making it a specialization of melee makes advancing too easy, but it does seem that a character skilled in melee combat should have an easier time wielding a lightsaber than others. |
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | Alternatively, what if you made Lightsaber Combat an advanced skill of Lightsaber, with the prerequisite that you have at least 1D in both Control and Sense? The LC Advanced skill would work just like any advanced skill... adding its rank to lightsaber attacks and damage... but using only LC for things like deflecting blaster bolts and the light.
It avoids a lot of the problems with the LC power as written. |
This is an interesting approach as well. It does however remove the bonus behind Sense and Control, which I feel like I've been doing it that way forever. An interesting approach for (A)Lightsaber Combat would be splitting dice between bonus to hit and bonus damage.
By doing this, one could also implement the various lightsaber forms as specializations for (A)LSC. Hmmm... This I might need to think on further.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | Alternatively, what if you made Lightsaber Combat an advanced skill of Lightsaber, with the prerequisite that you have at least 1D in both Control and Sense? The LC Advanced skill would work just like any advanced skill... adding its rank to lightsaber attacks and damage... but using only LC for things like deflecting blaster bolts and the light.
It avoids a lot of the problems with the LC power as written. |
This is an interesting approach as well. It does however remove the bonus behind Sense and Control, which I feel like I've been doing it that way forever. An interesting approach for (A)Lightsaber Combat would be splitting dice between bonus to hit and bonus damage.
By doing this, one could also implement the various lightsaber forms as specializations for (A)LSC. Hmmm... This I might need to think on further. |
I could definitely see a split... ALSC becomes a pool of bonus dice you can use to add to attack or damage, with styles being the specialization.
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"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/ |
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