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The Force Awakens (original spoilers thread)
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DarthOmega
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see and agree with where you are coming from in that regard Whill. The Interceptors definitely had a wider field of view, and having flown both in several games, I've seen the difference myself. As you pointed out Vader's TIE does indeed have the same weakness, but the later TIE Advanced that were based off of his ship design did not as they had wings more similar to an Interceptors. Me personally, I'm a TIE Defender guy myself. To the point that it was one of the first Imperial ships I picked up for the X-Wing miniatures game.

As for TFA I am hoping to see newer designs pop up in the later movies and considering they've already taken something from the flight sim games (the aforementioned Mag Pulse weaponry) I am holding out hope to see some of the other TIE designs from those games including the Advanced and the Defender and maybe the gunboats as well. Would definitely love see something like the Defender's mini-tractor beam weapon in play as well.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read that Kylo Ren is 30ish and Rey I believe 20. This brings up some interesting things. We know that TFA starts ~30 years after RotJ and the Empire was defeated a year or so after that.

4 ABY Battle of Endor
5 ABY Empire defeated at Battle of Jakku
Ben Skywalker born
14 ABY Rey born
18 ABY Rey hidden on Jakku
34 The Force Awakens

These numbers are approximations but I think they serve as decent bench marks.

1. It makes sense that Rey was hidden in the same year the New Jedi Order is destroyed by Ben/Kylo, placing that event in 18 ABY. The odd thing, this makes Ben/Kylo 13 years old. This does not make sense to me at all.

2. So how old was Ben/Kylo then when he was seduced to the Dark Side/Knights of Ren? Who is the say the Knights of Ren were always in the service of the Dark Side?

3. Okay, so if we assume that Ben/Kylo was 18 at the time of the massacre, placing it in 23 ABY and if Rey was 4 at the time she was hidden that would make her 14, so that doesn't really make sense either.

4. I think Ben/Kylo was probably 17 at the time of the destruction of the NJO, placing its destruction and Rey being hidden on Jakku in 22 ABY. This place Reys birth at 18 ABY, 4 years old at the destruction of the NJO and makes her 17 at the time of TWA.

5. This means that Luke has been in seclusion no longer than 13 years. The NJO was around for ~15-16 before its destruction.

6. The Resistance has not been around for very long, so when was it created? Was Leia out of politics long before this? If so, why?

Thoughts?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a minor point, but worth mentioning here... I find using ABY to be unnecessarily confusing. When discussing events that take place in between RotJ and TFA, I find it easiest to discuss years after RotJ (which was actually used by Lucasfilm in the early to mid-90s until they switched to B/ABY).

shootingwomprats wrote:
I read that Kylo Ren is 30ish and Rey I believe 20. This brings up some interesting things. We know that TFA starts ~30 years after RotJ and the Empire was defeated a year or so after that.

4 ABY Battle of Endor
5 ABY Empire defeated at Battle of Jakku
Ben Skywalker born
14 ABY Rey born
18 ABY Rey hidden on Jakku
34 The Force Awakens

These numbers are approximations but I think they serve as decent bench marks.

1. It makes sense that Rey was hidden in the same year the New Jedi Order is destroyed by Ben/Kylo, placing that event in 18 ABY. The odd thing, this makes Ben/Kylo 13 years old. This does not make sense to me at all.

2. So how old was Ben/Kylo then when he was seduced to the Dark Side/Knights of Ren? Who is the say the Knights of Ren were always in the service of the Dark Side?

3. Okay, so if we assume that Ben/Kylo was 18 at the time of the massacre, placing it in 23 ABY and if Rey was 4 at the time she was hidden that would make her 14, so that doesn't really make sense either.

4. I think Ben/Kylo was probably 17 at the time of the destruction of the NJO, placing its destruction and Rey being hidden on Jakku in 22 ABY. This place Reys birth at 18 ABY, 4 years old at the destruction of the NJO and makes her 17 at the time of TWA.

5. This means that Luke has been in seclusion no longer than 13 years. The NJO was around for ~15-16 before its destruction.

6. The Resistance has not been around for very long, so when was it created? Was Leia out of politics long before this? If so, why?

Thoughts?

Informed speculation is fun! Some of this was briefly discussed at the top of page 5 of this thread...

Whill wrote:
cheshire wrote:
The prevailing theory I've heard is that Rey is Luke's daughter, and there being some speculation that she is left on Jakku in order to hide from Kylo Ren...

Also, when did Kylo Ren fall to the Dark Side? There's plenty of room for speculation, as we only see his visage in a Force vision, looking like the 20-something he is in the film. But Luke has been gone for a good long while. Still, unless Kylo turned to the Dark Side and slaughtered the other apprentices when he was 10 or something, it's unlikely that Rey was put on Jakku to hide from Kylo Ren...

...We don't know when Ben/Ren crossed-over and slaughtered the Jedi. But we do know that officially Ren is 29-30 in TFA, and Rey is 19. Rey appears to have been 5-7 in the vision showing her being dropped off on Jakku. If that occurred in response to the Jedi massacre, then Ren could have been 15-18 when it happened.

See also Post-RotJ Canon Continuity. (I don't mind if you'd rather discuss these things here.)

In TFA Visual Guide, Chewbacca is 234 years old, which places TFA as 30 years after RotJ. By saying Kylo Ren is 29-30 in TFA, that must mean that he was conceived on Endor and born less than a year later, which would technically make him still 29 in TFA (perhaps the film is about 30.5 years after RotJ so maybe Ren is going on 30).

I agree that it is likely that Rey being placed on Jakku may be in response to Kylo Ren's massacre of Luke's new Jedi order, but I think you may be underestimating Rey's age at that time. Everything I've read everywhere estimates her age to have been 5-7 years old. Ren is 10-11 years older than Rey, which would make Ren 15-18 at the time Rey was dropped off on Jakku, and that would mean Luke has been in seclusion for about 12 years or more. And the other factor is, Ren's massacre of the Jedi and Rey being left on Jakku are only seen in Rey's vision, so in history things may not have looked exactly as they appeared in her vision.

From what I've been able to gather from official sources, Snoke is in command of the Knights of Ren with Kylo being the top knight. Leia said Snoke had seduced Ben/Kylo to the Dark Side, so it is possible that Snoke created the Knights of Ren with Ben/Kylo placed in charge from the beginning. Whether the Knights of Ren preexisted that or not, I feel they were probably always in service of the Dark Side. They seem to be inspired by The Star Wars rough draft's Knights of Sith, so like the Sith without the Rule or Two, or at least a more complex hierarchy. Maybe Snoke and Kylo Ren are like the Two, but the other Knights are Dark Side acolytes, maybe like Vader's use of Inquisitors in Rebels season two. I hope we see the other Knights in the next sequel(s), even if more minor antagonists.

I haven't been able to gather exactly when the Resistance formed, but my impression is also that it has not been around for a long time. As far as Leia, I don't know if she was completely out of new Republic politics by then or not, but it is extremely likely that she was, because we do know that she was sidelined in Republic politics very early on due to her position against the reduction of Republic military in response to the Republic victory in defeating the Empire 1 year after RotJ. She may have even left politics completely and joined the Republic military, and perhaps that shift occurred in relation to her son's massacre of the new Jedi order since it was implied by the film that Leia became more deeply involved in her current military vocation when Han left to become a smuggler again. We know that in more recent times when the First Order became a bigger threat, Leia was a proponent for increasing Republic military strength in response and labeled an alarmist, which eventually lead her to form the Resistance.
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rey being an engineerish type makes sense, she makes a living breaking down machinery and has some knowledge of the equipment's function (although not necessarily the value). In rpg terms she is the skill monkey thief. When she piloted the Falcon, the script threw in the line "I don't know how I did that (force point used, wink wink)." She probably has some force training too that I suspect was Jedi Blocked by Luke or somesuch.

The shooting script is out now which has some more info, Emergency Awesome (youtuber) has some tidbits contained therein in a recent vid. Luke knows Rey, it is written.

Cheers
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read "Before the Awakening" a few weeks back. It is explained that she had an old flight simulator that she loved to play on. She also piloted (on repulsors) a ship she and two others rebuilt.

As for her skills, if she is a Skywalker is makes sense. Luke and Anakin were both good with creating and fixing stuff, both were intuitive pilots of great skill, etc, etc as nauseum.
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ol' George was a greasy hotroddin' street racer!
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:42 pm    Post subject: TFA Novelization Reply with quote

I went to my local Barnes & Noble after dinner and they had only four copies of the new TFA novelization left on the shelf. I was very pleased to find it on sale for Amazon.com pricing! And it's a Special Edition with exclusive content, but I think it's just pictures.
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: TFA Novelization Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I went to my local Barnes & Noble after dinner and they had only four copies of the new TFA novelization left on the shelf. I was very pleased to find it on sale for Amazon.com pricing! And it's a Special Edition with exclusive content, but I think it's just pictures.


Maybe it has a different ending!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:30 am    Post subject: Pure Speculation Reply with quote

So, I've occasionally read up on some fan speculation about the sequel trilogy, and there are a couple of interesting ideas I've seen.

Rey's true identity and relationship to other characters is widely discussed. The Episode IX director said they're "going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying". I still feel that from a mythological aspect, Luke being her father is the obvious answer. The father quest is the quest to discover the hero's true character. While on a quest to find Luke Skywalker, Rey awakens to her Force potential and begins to discover her true character, and then literally finds Luke at the end. If this was all just an elaborate red herring it would be a disappointment. But maybe Luke is more of a spiritual father and not necessarily a biological father.

And regardless of Rey's father, there is still the question of who is Rey's mother? It could be a new character, perhaps the granddaughter of Obi-Wan. He could have fathered a daughter on Tatooine. Perhaps she was adopted, and maybe Luke even knew her growing up. I think that Rey likely still is a Skywalker in some way, because Kathleen Kennedy emphasized that this third trilogy is still the story of the Skywalker family, and I don't think that would only be a reference to Kylo Ren.

Regardless of her biological origin, I've read that Rey could be the spiritual reincarnation of Anakin. Who says a Force Ghost can't cause themselves to be reincarnated into a new life? That's really interesting to think about because of the Chosen One prophecy. Anakin came back to finish what he started. And Kylo Ren could be really upset by realizing this!

Speaking of Kylo Ren, one guy who had obviously seen Harry Potter speculated that Kylo Ren was really good and on a mission to destroy the Dark Side from the inside by siding with the enemy. I'm not a fan of this "Kylo Snape" theory and think this would be too corny and unoriginal.

A more interesting idea I came across reconsidered how Han Solo died. Leia had spoken to Han of Snoke's seduction of Kylo to the Dark Side. Snoke asked Kylo if he was up for the challenge of dealing with his family. Han also spoke about Snoke directly to Kylo, warning him that Snoke would use and discard him. What if Han figured that Snoke would expect Kylo to kill his own father to prove his loyalty and cement his devotion to the Dark Side (to differentiate himself from Vader who gave in to the good side)? Kylo showed reluctance and said he knew what he had to do but didn't know if he could go through with it. What if Han was actually the one to activate Ren's lightsaber and killed himself to save his son from committing patricide, in hopes that his son would be still be able to turn from the Dark Side at some point? That would really only make sense to me if they were planning on Ren being redeemed. That doesn't bode well with me at first consideration because we've already had a Dark Side redemption story (and we've already had a new film that was largely based on a classic trilogy film). But on the other hand I do really like the idea of Han sacrificing his own life to save his son from the Dark Side because it further elevates the hero status of Han Solo. When the lightsaber is first activated, we only see Kylo from behind so don't see his initial facial reaction, so that could have been hiding surprise.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we do see Han's reaction and it certainly seems to be surprise! But he does essentially sacrifice himself - walking out onto that bridge you could tell he knew the odds were slim he would walk off, but he decided it was a worthwhile attempt.

Rey to me is exactly how I would picture a daughter of Han and Leia: strong-willed, resourceful, a mechanical genius and imbued with the Force. The fact that they don't recognize her? Maybe her death was faked as an infant and she was smuggled away to keep her safe a la Episode III. It would be hard to understand if it turns out she's not related somehow to the Skywalkers.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Pure Speculation Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And regardless of Rey's father, there is still the question of who is Rey's mother?


I want there to be fanfic where it's actually Pink Five.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Pure Speculation Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
Whill wrote:
And regardless of Rey's father, there is still the question of who is Rey's mother?


I want there to be fanfic where it's actually Pink Five.

That would actually explain quite a lot...
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dhawk
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The moment that Han called out "Ben!" on the bridge, it invoked that scene of Luke recognizing Obi-Wan dueling Vader in A New Hope, who also remarked "Ben?"

It may have been just a nod to it, but I think it was more than that. It appeared Han knew that he was walking to his death, recalling Obi-Wan's sacrifice to ensure Luke, Han, and Leia would escape the Death Star. Perhaps he felt that he had to try to reach out to Ben and ignite that small spark that could one day led to his redemption, even if it killed him.

At least, that's what I took away from it, because it didn't seem fitting that Han Solo's death would've been for nothing. And if my view on it is correct, it adds a lot more importance to it.
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JironGhrad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something else to consider is the "supposed" spoiler in Disney Infinity 3.0, where Kylo Ren calls Rey "cousin". More food for speculation or slip-up?
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its pretty obvious that Rey is Luke's daughter.
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