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lurker
Commander
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Location: Oklahoma
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | By the time that Anakin needed to worry about increased difficulties, his character had already been scooped up by the GM because he'd fallen to the dark side. At which point it's moot. The GM can then elect either to give his GMC the penalties or not.
For me, I would apply the penalties during dramatically appropriate times, and ignore them against mooks. Vader can force choke the bejesus out of anyone in the imperial military, but not against the player characters. Use it as a story reason to level the playing field between Vader & Luke during their clash at Bespin, and again above Endor. |
Good point. Rules have a place, but a good story is even better! 
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I think a rule like this is consistent with the SWU. It is already established that droids (mechanical beings) can't learn Force powers, as well as being established that Anakin's connection to the Force was reduced when he was injured. Other gaming universes also rule that cybernetics and mental powers aren't compatible, so it isn't such a big step to take.
I wouldn't mind there being a distinction between replacement and enhancement cybernetics. Perhaps garhkal's +3 per CyP rule could be applied to elective enhancement cybernetics, while the +2 rule would be applied to replacement cybernetics (although I would also be willing to stipulate that a person with a replacement could upgrade their replacement part without getting the additional penalty; the part was a replacement, after all, with the character just making the best of a bad situation).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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How's about we do it as a +3/+2/+1 tiering. +3 for elective enhancements, +2 for elective replacements (like limbs), and +1 for required replacements (like organs)!
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't consider anything elective to be a simple replacement. Cybernetic parts would have maintenance issues that natural limbs don't have, so it would be rather foolish of someone to replace, say, a perfectly functional natural hand with something that functions just like their old hand but requires regular maintenance and tune-ups. Electively replacing a body part must come with some advantage or it just isn't worth it.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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It seems easiest to do +3 for elective cybernetics and a +1 for non-elective cybernetics.
Most elective replacements end up being used to hide weaponry (claws, repulsor generators, blasters) so they would fall under the enhancement category. While non-elective ones are usually simple replacements to keep the character from being at a serious disadvantage. Although, I'm reminded of a Jedi in the Legacy era who loses an arm and elects to not replace it with cybernetics, he simply fights one-armed.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | It seems easiest to do +3 for elective cybernetics and a +1 for non-elective cybernetics. |
I prefer to keep the basic non-elective cybernetic replacement at +2; it still makes a nice penalty for Force using characters, as they will have to either take the hit or seek out a bioware or cloned replacement (more expensive and less common).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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That is true with the bio-replacements & enhancements, which will be an easier option once Spince finishes the medical book.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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The way I'm picturing it, pure cybernetics (i.e. fully mechanical parts) are at +2 per CyP, bioware are at +1 per CyP, and cloned parts have no penalty at all. However, in the cases of elective replacement, all modifiers are shifted up by +1 (cyberware @ +3, bioware @ +2 and cloned / wetware @ +1), with exceptions for characters who choose to upgrade a replacement part.
My feel is that it is a combination both of the physical and mental aspects of the part, as a character seeking elective parts is willingly sacrificing a portion of his connection with the Force. However, as I said above, I do feel exceptions should be made for characters who choose to upgrade an involuntary replacement, as they didn't generally choose to lose a part of themselves in the first place.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Luwingo_Spince
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| I think this might be unnecessary since people who would elect to replace a limb/part generallywould not do a straight replacement but an enhancement. Most to almost all enhancemens already cost more cyber points then replacements so there is a natural penalty. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
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That's my point; there should be a distinction in CyP cost between people who elected to have a portion of themselves removed and those who were forced to do so as a result of disease or injury. What I think is that a person who has lost a body part through circumstance as opposed to choice should get a discount on their CyP cost if they choose to purchase an upgrade as opposed to a replacement, with the reason being the difference in mindset.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | The way I'm picturing it, pure cybernetics (i.e. fully mechanical parts) are at +2 per CyP, bioware are at +1 per CyP, and cloned parts have no penalty at all. However, in the cases of elective replacement, all modifiers are shifted up by +1 (cyberware @ +3, bioware @ +2 and cloned / wetware @ +1), with exceptions for characters who choose to upgrade a replacement part.
My feel is that it is a combination both of the physical and mental aspects of the part, as a character seeking elective parts is willingly sacrificing a portion of his connection with the Force. However, as I said above, I do feel exceptions should be made for characters who choose to upgrade an involuntary replacement, as they didn't generally choose to lose a part of themselves in the first place. |
Nice.
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Luwingo_Spince wrote: | | I think this might be unnecessary since people who would elect to replace a limb/part generallywould not do a straight replacement but an enhancement. Most to almost all enhancemens already cost more cyber points then replacements so there is a natural penalty. |
I see what you're saying, but crmcneill is talking about the intent behind the cybernetic modification. If I'm not mistaken (which is entirely possible), he wants you to divorce the intent (willful or involuntary loss of original limb) from the nature of the cyber-ware (replacement or enhancement). While the rules you mention already reflect the nature of the cyber-ware in terms of CyP cost, they do not reflect the intent of the character.
Under your rule as stated, a character who willfully chops off his own hand for no good reason and uses a replacement hand would be penalized less than a character who looses a hand in an industrial accident but decides to get an enhancement in its place.
But again, the answer depends wholly on which view you take of cybernetics and a character's connection to the Force. If the harm is entirely in the nature of the cyber-ware, then character two deserves the greater penalty. If the harm is entirely in the intent of the character, then character 1 deserves the greater penalty. If the harm is entirely in the loss of the limb, then the two characters deserve to be penalized equally. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think divorce is the right term; I'm suggesting that he take both the nature of the replacement and the intent of the subject into account, with respect to whether or not the loss of the original limb was voluntary or involuntary. Apart from that, you are dead on.
Another aspect worth considering (as mentioned in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide) is that blatantly obvious cybernetics carry a social stigma with them. How would that factor in?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Another aspect worth considering (as mentioned in Cracken's Rebel Field Guide) is that blatantly obvious cybernetics carry a social stigma with them. How would that factor in? |
#CyP gained from the obvious cybernetic functions as a flat penalty in "friendly" social rolls with someone who is non-cyber.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Luwingo_Spince wrote: | | I think this might be unnecessary since people who would elect to replace a limb/part generallywould not do a straight replacement but an enhancement. Most to almost all enhancemens already cost more cyber points then replacements so there is a natural penalty. |
Not necessarily, I had a player in one of my games elect to get cybernetic limbs to counteract a racial deformity. Not enhancement, but an elective replacement.
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