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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with the +5 per cyber point is that it scales up too rapidly in the case of characters in the films (specifically Vader) who have massive cybernetic replacement, yet can still use the Force. I did the math for a different topic, and Vader has around 8-9 cyber points, depending on how you calculate it. That means he is looking at around +40-45 increase in difficulty for all Force powers. I agree Vader should take a hit in the Difficulty department (it is canon, after all), but +40-45 is too much.
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm assuming an entire limb is worth at least 2 CP if a hand is 1. So even disregarding any other cybernetics Vader has, he'd be looking at +40 difficulty just from his four limb replacements. In Ep. IV, his lowest Force skill was Alter at 10D+1. His favorite power, telekinetic kill, has Control and Sense difficulties of Easy and an opposed roll for Alter versus the target's Perception or Control. So if he is going to choke someone out in one round that brings his Alter average down 2D (from MAPs). Admiral Motti's Perception was 2D+2. So for an average difficulty of 49 (40 + Motti's Perception average), Vader would only be swinging with an average of 29 (8D+1). That means he'd be walking around the Executor just shaking his fist at people that displease him way more often than actually Force choking them.  |
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Luwingo_Spince
Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 357
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is there a distinction between bioware and cloned replacement parts? |
I would think so, bioware is part bio part technology where as a cloned part would be as close to your natural flesh as possible I would probably rule that cloned part carry no such penalty.
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Obviously, I like this option. But I meant it to be mutually exclusive with the other alternatives I suggested. I think it is way too penalizing to BOTH erode a character's past training in the Force (by giving him a functional penalty to Force skills) AND to inhibit his future development. Your game, your rules, of course. But in my opinion, you should pick one of the approaches you included in your draft and leave the other behind. |
I meant it in my wording as an option for a gm to decide if they want to use it or not. I would like to keep it as i really like that rule you made. It is an easy fix though.
Cyberpoints and The Force:
Even though having cybernetics doesn't necessarily mean you connection with the force is reduced per se. Almost all cybernetics deal with replacing the flesh with cyber parts. As cyberpoints often represent the amount of flesh being replaced they can also be used to show how much of the connection to the force has been lost.
For every cyberpoint a character has they incur a +2 difficulty to their use of the force. i.e Brett Firestalker has 3 cyberpoints. Every time he uses the force he incurs a +6 difficulty to his force rolls.
Force Potential:
Alternative to the above rule you can use the rule that any future development of force skills will cost more depending on the characters cyberpoints. For every cyberpoint the character has increase the cost by one character point. i.e Brett Firestalker has 3 cyberpoints and a control of 8D. The next time he want to increase his control ability it will cost 11 character points instead of 8.
It is encouraged that you use one or the other rules not both as it can be a heavy penalty, but it is up to GM's fiat.
ok I do think 4-5 would be too much which is why I put it at 2. As it stands vader would be around a +16-18 difficulty level. If we bumped up to 3 he would be around a +24-36 range. That still sounds high to me. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so a +5 per CP is out. But having it down at just +2 per CP is rather cheap. How's about we compromise at +3.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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+2 has my vote. If nothing else, it's easier to divide 2 in half for bioware.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Luwingo_Spince
Commander
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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well we have one vote at +2 and one vote at +3. Here is the break down for each one. I know it's pretty basic but good to see together. Like more feedback from others.
+2 +3
1cp=2 1cp=3
2cp=4 2cp=6
3cp=6 3cp=9
4cp=8 4cp=12
5cp=10 5cp=15
6cp=12 6cp= 18
7cp=14 7cp= 21
8cp=16 8cp=24
9cp= 18 9cp= 27
10cp=20 10cp=30
Also did we decide to round up or down on bioware. When Garhkal and I first did it it was rounded up. Though if we go with +2 it won't be an issue. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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If we have it at +2 to the TN per CP, someone could theoretically have 2CP and overrule that by spending one character point. Where as if it was 3 per cyber point, they would need 2 character points to 'override it.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see the problem; spending CPs is for special circumstances. It's not like they'll be able to spend CP to overcome the deficit on each and every roll.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Luwingo_Spince
Commander
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Posts: 357
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I agree with that, Well it doesn't seem like we are going get any more feedback. I think I'm going to stick with +2 makes it easier all around to implement.
I appreciate everyone's comments. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Considering that CP is the accepted abbreviation for Character Points, perhaps it might simplify things to abbreviate Cyber Points as CyP to avoid confusion.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Or CWP for CyberWare points.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Cyber Point is already part of the WEG lexicon.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I've got mixed feelings about the Cyber-point rules in general. For me, enhancements should warrant CyPs, but replacements should be zero.
I don't see any point in punishing my player because the story took a limb. However, if they elect to start improving their character in such a way, then I have no issues reflecting the loss of humanity.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I can see your point, but I'm sure Anakin would've felt the same about his replacement limbs. To the best of my knowledge, his were involuntary and not enhancing, yet still affected his ability to use the Force.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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By the time that Anakin needed to worry about increased difficulties, his character had already been scooped up by the GM because he'd fallen to the dark side. At which point it's moot. The GM can then elect either to give his GMC the penalties or not.
For me, I would apply the penalties during dramatically appropriate times, and ignore them against mooks. Vader can force choke the bejesus out of anyone in the imperial military, but not against the player characters. Use it as a story reason to level the playing field between Vader & Luke during their clash at Bespin, and again above Endor.
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