The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Fusing and Blast Shaping for Warheads
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules -> Fusing and Blast Shaping for Warheads Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if I would use his idea, but the tech is certainly possible in a Star Wars setting. Basically what they would do is use force fields inside the warhead to produce a shaped charge. If the explosive used was segmented, they could even get an area effect/shrapnel effect. The major alternation required would be changing the shape of the force field from concave to convex.

But, as far a spaceship distances go, the effect would be marginal. The blast radii would be fairly small compared to the ever incfreasing size of a Space Unit.

So I could see this option allowing a pilot to trade off some damage for fire control and vice versa. A wide angle blast would get extra fire control (more likely to hit/harder to dodge), but spread out the energy over the increased area (less damage), which a concetrated shaped blast would do more damage but affect a smaller area (reduced fire control).


Something similar could be done to trade off warhead for more fuel/endurance, or maneuverability.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Unless they are remotely activated to what they are needing to be, i can't see this being done during combat, but more as a 'predo at base camp as we load the missiles up. I would also require either a demo roll or Starship weapon repair to make the switch over.


I fail to see why it should be limited to such a low-tech solution. We have fighter launched missiles right now that can have their guidance system settings changed while the missile is still attached to the launching craft. The advantage of the proposition is such that the pilot can hit a button on his console and tailor the weapon's effect to the specific target.


As someone who has worked with ordinance (the sparrows launched from ships for anti missile defense) its one thing to monitor guidance/change them, and an entirely different proposition for changing the settings for the warhead.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that presupposes that ordnance and warheads are limited to the standards of current technology in a universe where every other form of technology is leaps and bounds ahead of our own.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few possible warhead settings:

Anti-Starfighter = Spherical Blast, Proximity Detonated (-2D Damage, +2D Fire Control). Can also be used to target multiple starfighters simultaneously if the targets are flying in formation (GM's discretion)

Armor Piercing = Spherical Blast, Delay Detonated. Warhead delays detonation until after it has penetrated the target's hull, and the resulting explosion causes greater damage, as it is contained and entirely absorbed by the target. However, because of the reduced sensitivity of the fuse, the likelihood is increased that the warhead will impact the target's hull and be deflected away without detonating (-2D Fire Control, +2D Damage)

Shield-Buster = Conical Blast, Proximity Detonated. Detonates short of the target and delivers the majority of its energy against the shield itself. -2D Damage, but rolls just against the target's shield dice, using the Ionization damage chart for results (Shields Blown results only)

Theoretically, these results could be achieved simply by warhead fusing only, if the blast shaping concept is not your cup of tea. Any thoughts? Variants I've missed?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't like the idea, personally. An armor piercing missile will contain different stuff than an area affect weapon that targets starfighters. The armor piercer will have a concentrated cone-shaped blast, while the area affect will have rods or other shrapnel wrapped around an explosive so they fly outward.

I think you can do a little with the timing of the detonation, but not that much.

But, as always, all this is IMHO.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, this presupposes that proton torpedoes and concussion missiles use the same basic explosive types and methods that we use today. What if concussion missiles actually deliver kinetic energy via gravity waves (ala the seismic charges of AOTC)? What if proton torpedoes produce energy-based shrapnel rather than solid? IMHO, thinking in terms of just what modern technology can do is rather limiting, especially in a universe where just about anything is possible...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
I still don't like the idea, personally. An armor piercing missile will contain different stuff than an area affect weapon that targets starfighters. The armor piercer will have a concentrated cone-shaped blast, while the area affect will have rods or other shrapnel wrapped around an explosive so they fly outward..


I'm okay with changing the descriptions for a better fit with the effects. I'm more interested in what the weapon can do with the variable setting than I am in detailed specifics of how it does it. If the armor piercer would be better off with a conical blast, that's fine.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know me, I like to complicate things sometimes... Wink
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So game mechanics wise, what we got is a pool that the user can split up between fire control (to hit) and damage, right?

So a protorp might be a 10D warhead that can be split up between FC and damage depending on if the use is concerned primarily with hitting a target or damaging it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
But that presupposes that ordnance and warheads are limited to the standards of current technology in a universe where every other form of technology is leaps and bounds ahead of our own.

I wouldn't call some of their tech leaps and bounds ahead of us.. Look at most modern firearms. Their Effective ranges are bounds ahead of what the RPG lists for blaster rifle's max range..

atgxtg wrote:
So game mechanics wise, what we got is a pool that the user can split up between fire control (to hit) and damage, right?

So a protorp might be a 10D warhead that can be split up between FC and damage depending on if the use is concerned primarily with hitting a target or damaging it.


Hmm.. That might work to 'fill in' for C's idea.. So concussion missiles (normally 2d FC 8d damage), are also a 10d split.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:


So a protorp might be a 10D warhead that can be split up between FC and damage depending on if the use is concerned primarily with hitting a target or damaging it.


Hmm.. That might work to 'fill in' for C's idea.. So concussion missiles (normally 2d FC 8d damage), are also a 10d split.[/quote]

Yup. And if we want to factor in for the smart missiles that are in some of the supplements, somewhere, we could add in maneuverability, endurance and possibly speed into the mix.

In theory, the fuel and the warhead could be the same substance, and one used for the other, allowing for even greater flexibility in deployment options.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
So game mechanics wise, what we got is a pool that the user can split up between fire control (to hit) and damage, right?

So a protorp might be a 10D warhead that can be split up between FC and damage depending on if the use is concerned primarily with hitting a target or damaging it.


That's one way of putting it, but I like the idea of having specific names for specific settings. It's more fun (IMO) for a character to say "I set my proton torpedoes for anti-starfighter" than it is to say "Ok, I put 7D on damage and 3D on Fire Control".

Plus, just shifting between FC and Damage leaves out the Shield-Buster setting.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:


That's one way of putting it, but I like the idea of having specific names for specific settings. It's more fun (IMO) for a character to say "I set my proton torpedoes for anti-starfighter" than it is to say "Ok, I put 7D on damage and 3D on Fire Control".


The two are not mutually exclusive. We could do up a list of setting with the adjustments for each.

Quote:

Plus, just shifting between FC and Damage leaves out the Shield-Buster setting.


Not necessarily- it's just something else that can be done. We could swipe the targeting rules from the First edition rules expansion to get the adjustments in dice for various settings. For instance, if targeting shields was a -2D penalty in the expansion then we could reduce the damage by 2D, but have it apply only to shields.


In fact we could set up a whole new line of missile using this idea and the rules expansion. How about missiles that target specific systems, or even ones that do ion damage?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
The two are not mutually exclusive. We could do up a list of setting with the adjustments for each.


Well, if it were me, I'm not sure I would bother with the intermediate steps involved. If I wanted to try to hit a starfighter with a proton torpedo, I would choose the +2D Fire Control / -2D damage option every time. I'm not sure I want to go into it to such a degree as to start picking and choosing what dice goes where. Plus, I'm not entirely sold on the idea of the warhead and the fuel being pulled from the same source. I know they do it in Trek with photon torpedoes, but I'm not convinced that it would work here.


Quote:
In fact we could set up a whole new line of missile using this idea and the rules expansion. How about missiles that target specific systems, or even ones that do ion damage?


Well, as part of the TIE Bomber Mission Pod project I'm working on, I pulled the ordnance list from the old TIE Fighter game to provide some examples. One of the warheads included there was a Magpulse warhead that was essentially an ion warhead.

As far as targeting specific systems, modern radiation homing missiles track on active signals from sensors, communications and fire control, so its certainly a possibility, and would definitely open up no ways for starfighters to make life miserable for capital ships.

However, in the interests of staying on topic (specifically, the fusing and shaping of warheads for different effects), maybe we should move further discussion on the possibility of different types of warheads to another topic.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> House Rules All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0