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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | And how many people are 'pilots' say on a victory star destroyer? A carrack? A lancer? |
Well, an aircraft carrier or a battleship generally only has one guy on the helm. I don't see why a star destroyer should be different. Cooperative steering hasn't been practical since the days when it required setting sails.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Han Solo wrote: | | She'll hold together. (Hear me, Baby? Hold together!) |
| Mal Reynolds wrote: | | Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down... Tells you she's hurting before she keens. |
I allow CPs to be spent on hull soak. According to the RAW, they can be spent to boost damage. The only reason I can think of for this damage boost is shot placement; I can't believe the CPs make blaster bolts larger or something. If CP can be spent on damage to make shot placement more lethal, it stands to reason they could be spent on hull soak to make the shot placement less lethal. |
I tend to agree here, and crmcniel's idea is, in my opinion, the best one yet.
| garhkal wrote: |
And how many people are 'pilots' say on a victory star destroyer? A carrack? A lancer? |
On a ship like those, would the pilots even have CPs? If I remember correctly, don't the peons and other cannon fodder of the galaxy have 0 character points?
| jmanski wrote: | | So then the gunners add cp to their damage rolls and it becomes a wash. I personally wouldn't allow it on capital scale ships. For PCs I'd allow it in certain circumstances in Starfighter scale ships. |
Hmmm... well, if both sides adding CPs is a wash, then so is both sides not adding CPs, isn't it? Or are you saying that only gunners should be allowed to add CPs?
With all of the above quotes (plus crmcniel's idea), it would seem to be well within the spirit of Star Wars to allow character points on hull rolls provided that:
-The pilot is of a heroic or semi-heroic status (that is, at least somewhat special, like a boss or a mini-boss or other recurring villain).
-The pilot is the owner/operator of the ship, or is otherwise uncommonly familiar with it (Lando/Millennium Falcon, or, Chewbaca/Millennium Falcon). This could include characters who are not normally part of the ship's crew, such as mechanics who may have a particular affinity for "their" craft (a lot of Air Force mechanics refer to planes they work on as "theirs," etc). In this case, using crmcniel's idea, it's pretty sraight forward to improve the survivability of a ship, by allowing the maintenance crew (provided any of them even have CPs) to contribute to the pool. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14316
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | And how many people are 'pilots' say on a victory star destroyer? A carrack? A lancer? |
Well, an aircraft carrier or a battleship generally only has one guy on the helm. I don't see why a star destroyer should be different. Cooperative steering hasn't been practical since the days when it required setting sails. |
True, but those sort of ships don't seem to have a min crew listing, or you get a penalty for your maneuvering rolls (like most ships other than small freighters and starfighters do)..
| Quote: | | On a ship like those, would the pilots even have CPs? If I remember correctly, don't the peons and other cannon fodder of the galaxy have 0 character points? |
It breaks it down into cannon fodder (troopers)
Npcs who are not important to the plot (whether they live or die)
Continuing villians and lastly major.
CF has 0, minor get 1-3, continuing 4-10, and major as many as you want.
Many modules i have seen list most crew for big ships as being in the minor grouping..
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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This is my favourite variation on this idea
| crmcneill wrote: | | I take a middle path and allow characters to transfer CP to the ship between missions. In essence, rather than training to improve skills, the character spends time tinkering, repairing and cleaning his ship: loving it, as described in the Malcolm Reynolds quote above. The in game effect is to give the ship it's own CP pool which can then be spent on things like Hull rolls. |
I like the idea that love and care of the people using the ship can give the ship it's own pool of character points to allow it to hold together in situations when it should by all rights fall apart. I'd probably rule that is a ship is named (IE it has more than just a serial number) and people have had time to develop an attachment to it then they could invest character points in it.
I particularly like the way Robert Jordan said it in one of the Wheel of Time books.
"A ship is alive, and he is like a man, with a true mans heart. Treat him well and care for him properly, and he will fight for you against the worst sea. He will fight to keep you alive even after the sea has long since given him his deathstroke. Neglect him, though, ignore the small warnings he gives of danger, and he will drown you in the flat sea beneath a cloudless sky."
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14316
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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What else though can that ship spend CPs on? Whom can transfer CPs to it and how many/often?
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | What else though can that ship spend CPs on? |
I’d probably allow character points to be spent on hull rolls and occasionally pushing the ship beyond what should be possible. So if the ship really needed to make it to the safety of a space station while being pursued by a faster ship I’d consider allowing those character points to be spent on the piloting roll to go faster as you’re relying on the fact you know the engines are in good working order to keep them redlining longer than advisable.
I’d also consider allowing the invested character points to be spent to delay the ship’s destruction so a critical damage result that causes the generator to overload and explode might be delayed by the number of character points invested in the ship… The ship is still toast but the crew might escape.
| garhkal wrote: | | Whom can transfer CPs to it and how many/often? |
Anyone working on/maintaining the ship provided they're actually caring for it and not just going through the checklists and trying to be done as fast as possible. I'd generally require someone to have demonstrated some sort of affinity or affection for the ship (investigating strange sounds, checking odd readings, forgoing other pursuits to spend time going over the ship etc...)
So if the ship was a freighter that the crew lived on and they spent their downtime investigating the thumping sound that the ship makes whenever they pull a bootlegger turn instead of working on their own skills then I’d allow those involved in the investigation to invest character points then.
Given character points are useful for the players to have themselves and that if their ship is destroyed, stolen repossessed etc… then all the invested character points are effectively lost I don’t have a problem with players investing as many character points as they like. Those invested character points aren’t going to do them any good when they need to bluff their way out of a fight or swing over a ravine. Your mileage may vary but my players never have huge pools of character points that they don’t already have plans for.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| I'm really loving all these ideas. |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2292
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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After using this some, it seemed that the burden on the pilot was a bit much. It also created a (strange) moment where the Jedi jumped into a pilot's seat (replacing the co-pilot), so that he could spend his CP.
I've decided to amend this, so now any involved characters on the ship (meaning people manning stations, or busy actually doing something) can share their CPs for this purpose. My players were all for this change.
Hull Rolls
Any involved characters aboard may use (up to five of) their own Character Points to affect their craft’s Hull roll, but only for defensive uses and maneuvers, and only one character may do so per round.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14316
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Is it just PC's that get that capacity to increase a ship's defensive rolls, or NPC's as well? Might make for a long battle say if they face off against say an enemy pirate freighter or two, when those NPCs also have CP to spend.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2292
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I almost made this for PCs only, but intentionally wrote it so that NPCs can do it, too.
My players even pointed this out when we discussed it. But like I pointed out to them, most NPCs have only a few CP, if any. And generally speaking, the PCs will have far more at their disposal than NPCs.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14316
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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True, most generic npcs have 0-3. BUT lets take a Corellian corvette for instance (a common ship for pirates). That gives between 30-165 people on board (80 is a common number i have seen in modules). BUT lets go on the lower side, 45.
That 45 people includes gunners, pilots, the commander, navigator, sensor operator, shield operator and engineers. Even if only half (23 rounded up) have CP, that equates to potentially 69cp that this ship's crew has to spend into defensive rolls (sensors, shields, dodge, hull, repair rolls). A full party of 7 players needs to have a bank roll of 10cp EACH to equal that.
Add in 2-4 Y wing pilots (inc their gunners) which again is common for pirate groups, and that gives them potentially 12 more CP to spend in keeping combat going.
And that;s not even taking into account the potential some of those NPCs are named baddies, or 'veteran status (or higher) pirates.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2292
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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In your hypothetical scenario, 95% of those aboard the pirate corvette would have 0 CP. Only the few named baddies (perhaps the main pirate and a few of his henchmen) would have a couple.
And most of my players have far in excess of 10 CPs saved up for use, if they really need them.
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