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Force Attribute and Revised Force Skills
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So rather than roll, they get a flat out result?


No. Let me try to claifiy.

According to RAW, the difficulty ranges for TK is
Very Easy; up to 1 kg
Easy: Up to 10 kg
Moderate; Up to 100 kg
Difficult: Up to 1 ton
Very Difficult: Up to 10 tons
Heroic: Up to 100 tons

Objects can be moved up to 10 meters per round, +5 per additional 10 meters.



With a FORCE attribute, and assuming that 2D is still the average stat, we'd change the former to:


i]Very Easy;[/i] up to FCE DICE/2 kg
Easy: Up to FCE*5 kg
Moderate; Up to FCE*50 kg
Difficult: Up to FCE/2 tons
Very Difficult: Up to FCE*5 tons
Heroic: Up to FCE*50 tons

Objects can be moved up to FCE DICE*2 meters per round, +5 per additional FCE DICE *2 meters.


This way, somebody like Yoda or Anakin could lift and do a bit more with TK than somebody with a lower FCE attribute. Skill would still matter, and matter quite a bit.

Note that if we wanted to make 1D the default stat then we'd start with FCE DICE in kg, and FCE DICE in meters.


The idea would be to make a FORCE stat, and make it good for something more than just determining where they get to raise their Force skills from.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing I would hope to do with this is to streamline and simplify some of the Force rules. Lots of Force powers augment the Jedi's abilities, reducing his difficulties, or affecting the difficulties of others (Enhance Senses, Concentration, Magnify Sense, Instinctive Astrogation, Force of Will, Lightsaber Combat) and I am hoping to come up with one consistent method of applying the augmentation for all such powers rather than each power having it's own special way of working. Powers that give the Jedi benefits other than or in addition to dice modification would still get the other effects too.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So rather than roll, they get a flat out result?


No. Let me try to claifiy.

According to RAW, the difficulty ranges for TK is
Very Easy; up to 1 kg
Easy: Up to 10 kg
Moderate; Up to 100 kg
Difficult: Up to 1 ton
Very Difficult: Up to 10 tons
Heroic: Up to 100 tons

Objects can be moved up to 10 meters per round, +5 per additional 10 meters.



With a FORCE attribute, and assuming that 2D is still the average stat, we'd change the former to:


i]Very Easy;[/i] up to FCE DICE/2 kg
Easy: Up to FCE*5 kg
Moderate; Up to FCE*50 kg
Difficult: Up to FCE/2 tons
Very Difficult: Up to FCE*5 tons
Heroic: Up to FCE*50 tons

Objects can be moved up to FCE DICE*2 meters per round, +5 per additional FCE DICE *2 meters.


This way, somebody like Yoda or Anakin could lift and do a bit more with TK than somebody with a lower FCE attribute. Skill would still matter, and matter quite a bit.

Note that if we wanted to make 1D the default stat then we'd start with FCE DICE in kg, and FCE DICE in meters.


The idea would be to make a FORCE stat, and make it good for something more than just determining where they get to raise their Force skills from.


So rather than rolling alter, they just roll 'FSE'? Does this replace all the 3 force skills??
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO, they would still roll ALTER.

What the Force Stat does;

1) Provide a base from which characters begin their Force skills at. Just like how Dodge and Blaster default to DEX. Control, Sense and Alter would default to the FORCE attribute. That would help make padawans more like they are in the films and TV series. Useful and playable.

2) Determine the intensity of the effect of a Force Power when it is used. For example. somebody with Force 2D would be able to lift twice as much mass as someone with Force 1D at a given difficulty.

3) Differentiate between those who are strong with the Force and those who are weak but skilled.


Skill and training would still be important. You still need to roll the skill dice, it is just that the effects will affected by the character's strength with the Force (FORCE attribute). The character needs the skill and training to get the control over his raw power.
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JT Swift
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching the movies several times I notices its fairly easy for Jedi to throw something [they can even do it in combat], but very hard to continuously levitate something. These home brew rules reflect that distinction far better then RAW.

COMPLETE Telekinesis Rules
Throwing Things
Effect: By using this power, a Jedi may throw objects with mental power. If used successfully, the object lands where as the Jedi desires. A Jedi can throw several objects simultaneously, but each additional object requires the Jedi to make a new telekinesis roll. Target must be in line of sight of the Jedi.
Telekinesis can be used to attack other characters. Any deaths resulting in these attacks automatically gives the Jedi a Dark Side Point. However the Jedi always has the option of reducing mortal wounds and kills to just a maiming. Objects can be throw to attack other characters (use damage codes below). The target can dodge. Targeted characters can be pushed into walls (damage is 4D).
It can be used as a primitive space drive in emergencies.

Range to Target [or object] Alter Difficulty
3-7 meters away 12
8-20 meters away 17
21-40 meters away 22
Complex manipulation +10
Using an edged weapon to attack +18

Mass Diff Modifiers Damage (Add damage code if edged)
Less then 1 kg -5 1D
1-10 kg +0 2D
11-100 kg +5 4D
101-1000 kg +10 10D+2
1-10 met. tons +15 36D+2
11-100 met. tons + 20 61D+1


Levitation
Effect: This power can be used to continuously levitate objects, or other people. To do this the Jedi must focus himself entirely on the Force. Other then speaking, no other actions can be taken that round. The maximum speed is 1 meter per second. Afterwards Levitation leaves the user stunned for a number of turns equal to how long the levitation lasted.

If the Force user is levitating himself apply the standard proximity rules for the distance between himself and the ground. When levitating someone against their will, the target will resist by adding his or her Perception or control roll to the difficulty number.

Mass Diff Modifiers
Less then 1 kg 12
1-10 kg 17
11-100 kg 22
101-1000 kg 27
1-10 met. tons 32
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
NO, they would still roll ALTER.

What the Force Stat does;

1) Provide a base from which characters begin their Force skills at. Just like how Dodge and Blaster default to DEX. Control, Sense and Alter would default to the FORCE attribute. That would help make padawans more like they are in the films and TV series. Useful and playable.

2) Determine the intensity of the effect of a Force Power when it is used. For example. somebody with Force 2D would be able to lift twice as much mass as someone with Force 1D at a given difficulty.

3) Differentiate between those who are strong with the Force and those who are weak but skilled.


Skill and training would still be important. You still need to roll the skill dice, it is just that the effects will affected by the character's strength with the Force (FORCE attribute). The character needs the skill and training to get the control over his raw power.


So Rather than have the 3 force skills sapping a jedi's starting attributes score, they only have one force attribute with 3 skills of control/sense/alter (now cheaper to raise since they are akin to skills)?
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
[

So Rather than have the 3 force skills sapping a jedi's starting attributes score, they only have one force attribute with 3 skills of control/sense/alter (now cheaper to raise since they are akin to skills)?


Yeah, mostly. THe cost will be same since Force Skills always were skills. THey will just start off a bit higher than before.

Note that just having the attribute does not grant knowledge of the Force Powers.

Also note that since the effects would be tied in some way to the FORCE attribute, characters with a low FORCE stat will not get as strong as an effect as someone with a high FORCE stat.

TO make the FORCE stat work,, I'd need to alter the power descriptions to link the effect to the FORCE stat. I.E. Accelerate Healing might allow a healing roll per day per D in FORCE, with a +1 to the roll per D in FORCE.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like 1 and 3, but 2 seems a bit much. No other attribute increases the effectiveness of skills, apart from providing a higher base start.

The thing that bothers me most about the blanket augmentation of other skills by the Force attribute is that that is not how things are in the films. Even Anakin, whose Force attribute would be obscenely high, didn't have a blanket natural aptitude in absolutely everything. Instead, he excelled at Mechanical and Technical skills.

Perhaps the Force attribute would be a good place to address some of the instinctive specialization that some Jedi experience. Maybe for every D of Force attribute, they can pick one Force power that they can use without being taught?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or 1 attribute that they can link it to.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
I like 1 and 3, but 2 seems a bit much. No other attribute increases the effectiveness of skills, apart from providing a higher base start.


THat's not entirely true. PER and STR both have uses that go beyond skill ratings, and many people think that Lifting should be tied more the STR that it is.

On screen they make a big thing about Anakin and Luke and Yoda all being strong with the Force. This has to be something more than just high die codes on CSA. If it were just CSA, then it gets even harder to believe that Vader could defeat all the Jedi that he did, and impossible to understand why Yoda and Obi-wan sat on their butts for 20 years and dropped everything into Luke's lap. So there must be something to the strong with the Force bit. If it were just the dice codes, Yoda could have trained anybody. Below 3D or so skills improve fairly rapidly.

Quote:

The thing that bothers me most about the blanket augmentation of other skills by the Force attribute is that that is not how things are in the films. Even Anakin, whose Force attribute would be obscenely high, didn't have a blanket natural aptitude in absolutely everything. Instead, he excelled at Mechanical and Technical skills.


He also excelled with the Force. He had a lot of raw power but not much finesse. My idea was to give him something for being strong with the Force.




[quopte]
Perhaps the Force attribute would be a good place to address some of the instinctive specialization that some Jedi experience. Maybe for every D of Force attribute, they can pick one Force power that they can use without being taught?[/quote]

Yes, that sounds good. Since the Jedi don"t really know what they are doing they would have to pick from a list of powers that could be used instinctively. Stuff like Enhance Attribute, Danger Sense, Instinctive Astrogation, Magnify Senses, Acclerate Healing,Concentration and the like. MAybe each attibute would be it's own Enhance Attribute power? Enhance DEX, Enhance PER, Enhance TEC, Enhance MEC and so on. Anakin might have had Enhance MEC and Enhance TEC. as part of his "instinctive" abilities.

We'd just need to look at the powers and determine which ones could pass for natural ability and which ones must be used consciously. I can see somebody be a good athlete, font of knowledge, have keen sense and such, but stuff like telekinesis or shooting lighting from one's fingertips is out. Basically anything that could be passed off for luck or explained away somehow is fair game.


This would also help the Jedi to identify those children who can use the Force. Anakin probably has some sort of Sense/precog power that let him read Windu's mind well enough to ID the images.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the ideas of this. Has it been play tested over the last 3 months ??? If so how did it work out?
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurker wrote:
I like the ideas of this. Has it been play tested over the last 3 months ??? If so how did it work out?


No, it hasn't. What happened was that just about the time I was ready to playtest this, the group's Jedi got killed in a freak ship explosion. He was rolling bad, his freighter got hit by a laser cannon, and the player rolled a minimum soak roll and against a max damage roll. The he did it again while spending a FP to soak the 10D damage or so he took when the ship went kaboom. He was just having an off day and literally couldn't make a roll to save his life.

Then economic circumstances forced me to relocate , and IO haven't been able to game at all in the last 3 months (actually the last 6). RPG withdrawal is a terrible thing. We need something like methadone for gamers. Going cold-turkey is tough.
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lurker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:


...

Then economic circumstances forced me to relocate , and IO haven't been able to game at all in the last 3 months (actually the last 6). RPG withdrawal is a terrible thing. We need something like methadone for gamers. Going cold-turkey is tough.



Rgr on that, and it doesn’t get easier with time. I got tied up with college, a last deployment, retiring from the AF, moving back to OK, more college etc etc etc. With all of that I had to stop gaming (C&C) with the on line group I had played with for 2 years. After that in the last 2 &1 / 2 years, I’ve played less than 5 pick up one shot games. With that I am still going through withdraws … to make it worse, now that I am wrapping up my master’s work, my on line group is full up and doesn’t have room for me to jump in and play … Sad

That said, if you decide to try the voice only skype (for free) and maptools (and/or roll 20, but like I said, I haven't used it so can't say for sure how user friendly it is – or any type of on line gaming support for that matter) and put together an online group, I’d love to jump in !!! Wink hint hint

Of course, time and schedule would come into play.
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Ankhanu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tested my system out a tiny bit, but have also suffered from "group dissolved, haven't played Star Wars in nearly 2 years as a result"-itis.

It's tough to test a system when you can't get people to playtest with you Razz
It was seeming to work ok, however.
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lurker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhanu wrote:


.., but have also suffered from "group dissolved, haven't played Star Wars in nearly 2 years as a result"-itis.

It's tough to test a system when you can't get people to playtest with you Razz
...


Well, that is 3 of us that are in need of a game group Wink
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