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MattMartin23
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 102
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | Last time I had NPCs toss a thermal into a PC group it went something like this:
Black armoured Scout Troopers? No way! We're ducking behind the trash compactors.
Okay roll Perception.
Bugger that I'm using Tactics: squads, I got 5D.
Okay roll your Tactics: squads versus their initiative.
Yeah I got 19.
Okay they're 12 you win. Want to act first or wait and see?
You're kidding right? We duck behind cover man.
Everybody taking shots?
Yup.
Cool. It's pretty confined cover, you'll have to pack together behind the trash compactors, there's three of you and about six metres of space to huddle in.
Yup, that's what we do. And return fire from cover. I'm aiming.
Me too, I'm gonna rest my blaster rifle on the top of the trash compactor to return fire.
I'm just going to move around as I can and fire over the top.
Okay if you bunch behind the trash compactors you've got 3/4 cover, but bracing your rifle for +1D blaster skill means you expose yourself a bit more for 1/2 cover, got it?
Yup, we're cool with that.
Okay so you all dive for cover behind the trash compactors and two of you brace blaster rifles for +1D blaster skill, but only 1/2 cover, and the third is just popping up for a base skill shot at 3/4 cover, right?
Yup, that's our actions declaration.
A grenade-like object comes over the top and four blaster shots as they move and reposition themselves behind some half-cover, in accordance with your actions.
Oh crap I'm gonna bolt (reactionary dodge with 2 moves, still has his shot too).
I'm gonna shoot the thrower and dodge (half move, reactionary dodge, aim and shoot).
Me too (reactionary dodge at half move, aim and shoot).
Physical positioning means at least two PCs are caught within about 8 metres of a thermal detonator blast radius. Anything else is just a logical fallacy.
Third PC has around 23 metres distance to gain from the blast if his dodge is ahead of the throw.
The enemy throw itself is just a range difficulty to hit the area behind the trash compactors, he's not aiming at anyone specifically and the question really becomes one of how far can you get from that blast location during the round? |
I think I am pretty settled on how it should be handled. There are enough point penalties to the thrower that there is a good chance that the PCs will be okay. After all on 5D he will need a 25 or more to hit. That's a pretty high roll for the bad guy. And if he connects I am giving the characters a lot of wiggle room and they are armored.
There is a very good shot they'll be fine. The lowest dodge they have is 5D, 4D with the armor penalty. I am confident they will be okay. Besides as GM I can fudge the point damage a little if it tells a better story, adds drama and intensity and satisfies the story arc. The main point is that the heroes need to be challenged on their search for their bounty.
This will be a lofty, fun challenge. Can't wait to see how they handle it!!! |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you are going to go that far, why not dispense with rolling the dice and just 'story tell' it out///
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MattMartin23
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | If you are going to go that far, why not dispense with rolling the dice and just 'story tell' it out/// |
I see your point. The reason I don't just "story tell" it is that there should always be the illusion that the characters will face death. Therefore, I require the rolls and if something doesn't make sense thematically I use final judgement but still let characters get so much as mortally wounded and need to be in bacta.
During the last session there was a stationary thermal detonator that was triggered by proximity approach. When the PCs came with 3 meters of a docking bay entrance, an NPC said, "Wait! Stop! Jump for cover!" and a thermal detonator exploded. One NPC was mortally wounded, all of the others were able to use their dodge attempt and strength checks to clear the blast. Then an antipersonnel cannon came down on the crew and started firing.
One thing I will change the next time they encounter a thermal detonator is this: On an easy dodge roll they can clear 1D meters, on a moderate roll they can clear 1D+2 meters, on a difficult roll they can clear 2D meters and on a very difficult they can clear 2D+1 meters. |
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tetsuoh
Captain
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Never let ugnaughts play Uggy Ball (Ping Pong) with your non active TD if your planning to spectate the event from the first row, front court seat.
*nods, while rubbing his chin*
Our Group doesn't use the dodge for full success on grenades - most times the battlefield is drawn out and areas of cover discussed only if someone does a search for cover. Which on-defense military characters tend to do when entering areas in enemy territory.
We simply use dodge for distance - which can lead to dodge into cover.
On that note - our Group has NEVER had someone fully succeed on dodging out of the way of a TD btw.
Now plenty have soaked the remaining damage after a dodge, and some have been able to throw themselves behind enough cover to mitigate most damage. But to date no one has negated the full damage of a TD by dodging, be it to cover or not.
One player successfully dodged to cover - unfortunately he dove for cover into a maintenance office with floor to ceiling windows facing the detonation - even after he was told that due to perception. He actually survived but was so badly burnt he was scarred for the remainder of his characters life. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MattMartin23 wrote: | | One thing I will change the next time they encounter a thermal detonator is this: On an easy dodge roll they can clear 1D meters, on a moderate roll they can clear 1D+2 meters, on a difficult roll they can clear 2D meters and on a very difficult they can clear 2D+1 meters. |
I'd be rather frustrated when I made a very difficult roll, rolled bad and only jumped 3 meters while my buddy who could only make an easy roll and rolled well on the D6 and managed to jump 5+ meters.
I'd probably use something more like
moderate roll you are 1 interval of distance away
difficult you move 2 intervals of distance away
very difficult you move 3 intervals of distance away
(Adjust intervals up or down based on how deadly you want grenades to be for the PCs,) |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | MattMartin23 wrote: | | One thing I will change the next time they encounter a thermal detonator is this: On an easy dodge roll they can clear 1D meters, on a moderate roll they can clear 1D+2 meters, on a difficult roll they can clear 2D meters and on a very difficult they can clear 2D+1 meters. |
I'd be rather frustrated when I made a very difficult roll, rolled bad and only jumped 3 meters while my buddy who could only make an easy roll and rolled well on the D6 and managed to jump 5+ meters.
I'd probably use something more like
moderate roll you are 1 interval of distance away
difficult you move 2 intervals of distance away
very difficult you move 3 intervals of distance away
(Adjust intervals up or down based on how deadly you want grenades to be for the PCs,) |
But the throwers roll should be taken into account. A well timed throw will leave less time to dive away then when a rookie throws the grenade directly when pulling the pin.
What if the thrower could raise the difficulty (for the dodgers) by holding the grenade for a short time before throwing. This will mean that if he fumbles, he will have very little time to dive to cover himself (or try to grab and throw).
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | But the throwers roll should be taken into account. A well timed throw will leave less time to dive away then when a rookie throws the grenade directly when pulling the pin. |
Fair point. It may work best to treat the throw and the dodge as contested rolls and allow the dodge to move 1 additional increment away for each x points by which the dodger beats the difficulty of the throw. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| MattMartin23 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | If you are going to go that far, why not dispense with rolling the dice and just 'story tell' it out/// |
I see your point. The reason I don't just "story tell" it is that there should always be the illusion that the characters will face death. Therefore, I require the rolls and if something doesn't make sense thematically I use final judgement but still let characters get so much as mortally wounded and need to be in bacta.
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I have been in many games, whether at cons or local, where i found the GM was like you, wanting to keep an "Illusion of the potential of death" but never actually carrying it through. Sure an NPC or two died, but never seriously were we the PCs in jeopardy. To me those games were depreciated in their enjoyment.
| Quote: |
During the last session there was a stationary thermal detonator that was triggered by proximity approach. When the PCs came with 3 meters of a docking bay entrance, an NPC said, "Wait! Stop! Jump for cover!" and a thermal detonator exploded. One NPC was mortally wounded, all of the others were able to use their dodge attempt and strength checks to clear the blast. Then an antipersonnel cannon came down on the crew and started firing. |
ANd why did the NPC not also get the benefit of a dodge roll? Did anyone notice it (or was it just story telled that the NPC blunders into it and notices it)??
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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There was another thread about grenade throwing that covered holding the grenade and giving people less time to get away.
What it suggested was that anyone throwing a grenade could choose to add as many MAPs as they like to the roll the MAPs would only apply to throwing the grenade and represented holding the grenade for longer so that it would have less time before it exploded at the other end.
If the throw was successful then the those in the blast radius had the same level of MAPs as the thrower applied to any defensive actions like dodging, throwing the grenade back at the thrower or TKing it off in another direction.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Never seen that suggestion for grenade tossing.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Esoomian, that seems pretty elegant from a how does it effect the defender. But it seems like the real catch with holding the grenade longer is that if thrower messes up they go BOOM!
Just lowering their chance to throw via MAPs doesn't cover that since the grenade miss table doesn't really address holding too long, only where the grenade goes if it misses. We need a way of including some chance of thrower goes BOOM! |
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MattMartin23
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have been in many games, whether at cons or local, where i found the GM was like you, wanting to keep an "Illusion of the potential of death" but never actually carrying it through. Sure an NPC or two died, but never seriously were we the PCs in jeopardy. To me those games were depreciated in their enjoyment.
Like I said, I allow them to be mortally wounded, lose a limb, have recurring pain that they need assistance for. No one gets off scott free in the RPG. And both players are anxious to get involved and play the next session. It's all in the writing...
ANd why did the NPC not also get the benefit of a dodge roll? Did anyone notice it (or was it just story telled that the NPC blunders into it and notices it)?? |
The NPC did dodge (but had a low skill) and a low strength. She is the girlfriend of the Jedi character who he told to come along even though she has no body armor and minimal military/combat training. |
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MattMartin23
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | MattMartin23 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | If you are going to go that far, why not dispense with rolling the dice and just 'story tell' it out/// |
I see your point. The reason I don't just "story tell" it is that there should always be the illusion that the characters will face death. Therefore, I require the rolls and if something doesn't make sense thematically I use final judgement but still let characters get so much as mortally wounded and need to be in bacta.
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I have been in many games, whether at cons or local, where i found the GM was like you, wanting to keep an "Illusion of the potential of death" but never actually carrying it through. Sure an NPC or two died, but never seriously were we the PCs in jeopardy. To me those games were depreciated in their enjoyment.
Like I said, I allow them to be mortally wounded, lose a limb, have recurring pain that they need assistance for. No one gets off scott free in the RPG. And both players are anxious to get involved and play the next session. It's all in the writing...
| Quote: |
During the last session there was a stationary thermal detonator that was triggered by proximity approach. When the PCs came with 3 meters of a docking bay entrance, an NPC said, "Wait! Stop! Jump for cover!" and a thermal detonator exploded. One NPC was mortally wounded, all of the others were able to use their dodge attempt and strength checks to clear the blast. Then an antipersonnel cannon came down on the crew and started firing. |
ANd why did the NPC not also get the benefit of a dodge roll? Did anyone notice it (or was it just story telled that the NPC blunders into it and notices it)?? |
The NPC did dodge (but had a low skill) and a low strength. She is the girlfriend of the Jedi character who he told to come along even though she has no body armor and minimal military/combat training. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| MattMartin23 wrote: | | The NPC did dodge (but had a low skill) and a low strength. She is the girlfriend of the Jedi character who he told to come along even though she has no body armor and minimal military/combat training. |
Bren, my Jedi PC has a slightly different problem. His girlfriend doesn't need to be told to come along for the danger, she insists on it. He thnks that he would be so much happier if she would only agree to stay safe. Ha! Well at least now she is combat trained. |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | Esoomian, that seems pretty elegant from a how does it effect the defender. But it seems like the real catch with holding the grenade longer is that if thrower messes up they go BOOM!
Just lowering their chance to throw via MAPs doesn't cover that since the grenade miss table doesn't really address holding too long, only where the grenade goes if it misses. We need a way of including some chance of thrower goes BOOM! |
As I play it theres really no chance of the grenade going Boom while its held in the hand (ok, a really crappy 1 on the wild die result perhaps (-10)). However, if you hold the grenade for a second or two you wont have any margin if you fumble and drop it while throwing.
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