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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | @Garhkal
Sorry I meant their full skill, as in all their dodge dice. They only get the range difficulty added to that if they are doing a Full Dodge [ie no other actions at all that turn].
As in real life [and most movies - including Star Wars] a key part of winning a gun fight is to not get shot if the first place. |
So why no MAPS on it? Does it tend to make the PC's unhittable? Does it also apply to space combat?
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JT Swift
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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At Garhkal
I let them roll their dodge at its listed skill [instead of charging it MAP] because the guns are dangerous [I assume all ranged weapons roll all 5s on their damage rolls] and I don't let them drop damage by more then one level using character points. [Just like in the movies] getting shot is a BAD THING in my game. So I cut them a break on the dodge rolls and let them roll at full skill even if they are still firing twice. [now I do charge them MAP on all their non-defensive skills].
Yes, I use the exact same rules for vehicle combat. In the movies, only ships with 6D hull and 3D shields can regularly take several hits from a TIE fighter.
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Crimson_red
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Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Location: British Columbia, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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In our earlier years of playing we did much the same thing, having the player roll their full dodge skill without MAPs. This was largely a result of few, if any, of us having actually read the rule book, but it also had its origins in how deadly those games were. We probably understood how damage was dealt with even less than dodging, and so a hit, even mostly soaked could be hugely punishing and if it didn't outright kill you the penalties were harsh enough that it was an effective death sentence if your team couldn't finish the fight in short order. The GM used a pre-made table of horrible things that happened to you when you couldn't soak the damage, and it got nasty quick.
One way we seemed to balance it out was each dodge roll applied only to a single attack, CPs and all. If you had to dodge multiple shots in a round it could get very expensive if you relied on CP to stay alive. The extra rolling may have slowed the game a little, but not having to remember your dodge roll for the round, or track separate dodge and parry rolls had its advantages to off set the delay.
That said, I don't think I want to go back to doing thing that way... the table was hilarious. . . right until it was you getting hit! |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | so, with a stregth of 2D, you can lift an average of 6. Two individual characters with a 2D stregth each can lift an average of 6 seperatly. With a combined action, the could lift an average of 9. Why can they not lift an average of 12 together if they can seperatly? I am fully confident that if i had an identical clone, we could together lift at least twice the weight we could lift seperatly |
Good question.
I treat attributes in D6 as being a power of 2 function. So STR 4D = 2 x STR 3D and STR 3D = 2 x STR 2D (hence STR 4D = 4 x STR 2D) so difficulties for lifting should be logarithmically scaled.
Long way of saying difficulty 9 is not 1.5 x the mass/weight of difficulty 6 but more like 2.0 x the mass/weight of difficulty 6 which is why if one person can lift a difficulty 6 weight than two people can lift a difficulty 9 weight. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| JT Swift wrote: | At Garhkal
I let them roll their dodge at its listed skill [instead of charging it MAP] because the guns are dangerous [I assume all ranged weapons roll all 5s on their damage rolls] and I don't let them drop damage by more then one level using character points. [Just like in the movies] getting shot is a BAD THING in my game. So I cut them a break on the dodge rolls and let them roll at full skill even if they are still firing twice. [now I do charge them MAP on all their non-defensive skills].
Yes, I use the exact same rules for vehicle combat. In the movies, only ships with 6D hull and 3D shields can regularly take several hits from a TIE fighter. |
Is it just the Pcs who benefit from that? Or is it everyone in the combat?
What of brawl and melee? Are they too so capped?
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bren"] | Zarm R'keeg wrote: | | so, with a stregth of 2D, you can lift an average of 6. Two individual characters with a 2D stregth each can lift an average of 6 separately. With a combined action, the could lift an average of 9. Why can they not lift an average of 12 together if they can separately? I am fully confident that if i had an identical clone, we could together lift at least twice the weight we could lift seperatly |
Mostly because if we used a linear scale we'd need to use huge numbers. For instance, if it takes 100 guys to lift and move an X-Wing, we'd have to assume it was difficulty 600! And if a Bantha can shift 10 times what a man could it would need to have it's STR upped to 20D.
A non linear progression is something of a given with the D6 system. We know that a turbolaser from an ISD is more than just 5 times as powerful as a blaster pistol. A LOT more. And ten laser pistols can blow a planet up the way the Super Laser on a Death Star can. |
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I have returned to the 1st ed rules. To walk away unstunned you need to beat the damage roll by double!
Also, if you get stunned, your next damage resistance roll (within 1 hour or medical attention) will suffer a -1 pip penalty. |
This is how I have always handled it, in every incarnation, variation, and campaign I have ever run in D6, for 20+ years now. I have never had a problem with Blaster Proof wookies (though they may soak a shot or two with no damage at all from blasters and heavy blasters on a good roll). I still have plenty of Mortally wounded PC's and NPC's on single hits. I had to add a new category as it came up a few times, Damage>5 times defens = Killed Outright (ok, many will say "what about 4 times?" but I wanted some leeway for survivability - after all the hallmark of good space-pulp and old serials is that the hero or villain always comes back;). Made a few other slight tweaks to the Wounds system, but that's for another thread.
I did add an optional "Critical Hit" rule, based on the same scaling as wounds: for every multiple of the target number, the characters shot is increasingly acurate and closer to a vital area or weak spot in the armor, and gains a +1D to the damage roll. After many playtests in games from 2006 through 2008 the overall response from players was very good (even though it also applied to NPCs).
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
I treat attributes in D6 as being a power of 2 function. So STR 4D = 2 x STR 3D and STR 3D = 2 x STR 2D (hence STR 4D = 4 x STR 2D) so difficulties for lifting should be logarithmically scaled.
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This is a good catch and explanation. There is some published material for 1st edition and a little (more scarce) for second edition, and even a minor amount in the D6 core books (though the numbers and mechanics fall apart in several places there and become subject to bloat) that directly supports this. This is especially true of the combined weapon charts in either edition of the GG6 (linking to weapons of equal Damage garners a 1D increase). There were also several such charts in the Rules Companion for first edition (lots of great source material for rules and an insight into advanced D6 game mechanics there - shame it was never reprinted). I have used this as a guide when creating new source material, be it weapons, armor, vehicles, etc... every 1D increase is exponential...so I use existing official material as a benchmark wherever possible, and try to stat from there.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| KageRyu wrote: | | I had to add a new category as it came up a few times, Damage>5 times defens = Killed Outright (ok, many will say "what about 4 times?" but I wanted some leeway for survivability - after all the hallmark of good space-pulp and old serials is that the hero or villain always comes back;). Made a few other slight tweaks to the Wounds system, but that's for another thread.). |
So no one is officially dead till the damage is 5x over soak at the death level? So to kill you i need to get 80 points of damage over your soak?
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | KageRyu wrote: | | I had to add a new category as it came up a few times, Damage>5 times defens = Killed Outright (ok, many will say "what about 4 times?" but I wanted some leeway for survivability - after all the hallmark of good space-pulp and old serials is that the hero or villain always comes back;). Made a few other slight tweaks to the Wounds system, but that's for another thread.). |
So no one is officially dead till the damage is 5x over soak at the death level? So to kill you i need to get 80 points of damage over your soak? |
No. That's not what was said.
(using the first edition wounding tables where 1xdefense=wound, 2x=stun, etc...) On any damage roll of 5 times the defense roll it is instant death. No mortal wound checks. No force healing. No resucetation. Dead. Depending on the rolls, this could happen on anything from a 10+ up, but I see it happening a lot when a damage roll is in the 30-40 range.
There is still cumulative wounds and mortal wounds leading to death too. Never said anything about removing those.
In the altered wounds system for 2nd Edition and Second Edition revised, they already added a Killed result. There was no such result in 1st. The thing I never liked about the change to damage scaling was tat it was harder to wound initially, but easier to kill - and this just felt wrong. A lot of the deaths from weapon injuries are not instant death, but death due to trauma, shock, and bleeding out (i.e. a Mortal Wound), still instant kills happen - this is why I not only prefered the wound scaling in 1st edition, but added an instant kill result to it.
Also, second edition I believe did away with stun only damage from brawling...I'd need to double check (I know it handled stun damage a lot different).
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| KageRyu wrote: | | The thing I never liked about the change to damage scaling was tat it was harder to wound initially, but easier to kill - and this just felt wrong. A lot of the deaths from weapon injuries are not instant death, but death due to trauma, shock, and bleeding out (i.e. a Mortal Wound), still instant kills happen - this is why I not only prefered the wound scaling in 1st edition, but added an instant kill result to it. |
In Star Wars, the deaths seem to be almost invariably instant.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe its been so long since i had any first ed books, but i don't remember there not being a death option.
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KageRyu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Maybe its been so long since i had any first ed books, but i don't remember there not being a death option. |
Yup, only death from mortal wounds. It did say that for NPC's and unimportant characters, it was not nescessary to track past Incapicitate, as at that point they were out of the fight. I think that it was left out to prevent perpetual and repeated death of PC's as the first edition did focus quite a bit on it being fast, fun, and heroic - and even had a sub chapter about penalties other than death, and mentioned to try to avoid letting PCs die unnescessarily whenever possible - and while I am fine with that for a lighthearted game, I feel an instant Death result from damage is still something that should be included (other reasons I set it at x5 in keeping with the apparent feel of 1st edition).
I still had plenty of Deaths, even from Instant Kill damage. I generally followed the spirit of the first edition books for trying not to kill players and use other penalties for the most part - as long as they were being the good guys and herois. I followed these tennets when deciding if a Death was warranted for PCs (for my Star Wars games that is...other D6 games with different moods had different rulings):
• Death at the hands of a significant NPC (main villain or one of his powerful henchman) it stood.
• A Heroic death of any sort...heck, that's the most I could ask for any of my characters when I played - it stood.
• Death as the result of bad conduct or behaviour, acting villanous, and similar - it stood.
• Death as the result of continued and repeated stupid actions even after attempts to get the players to see there ways, or if they were testing my resolve (Hey, let's storm the imperial Garrison, there's 5 of us and 16,000 stormtroopers, but the GM won't kill us) - it stood.
I'm sure many would disagree, but I liked to keep my Star Wars games light and fun.
There were a lot of things just as bad, or worse than death that could happen to a PC in my games too.
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