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Grimace
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | I think the confusion may be whether you were claiming that the RAW allows characters who have not turned to the Dark Side to Call on the Dark Side and use the FP to quad, but does not allow characters who have turned to Call on the Dark Side and use the FP to quad.
I thought it was clear that the rule that only Dark Siders cannot quad was a house rule that you use, not that you thought that was according to the RAW. |
The Rules As Written state that if you're a Dark Sider you can call on the Dark Side to get Force Points. Period. That's it.
It doesn't read like the "Calling on the dark side" that is done when you haven't fallen to the dark side, so I don't run it the same. The fact that I don't run it the same is my house rule, but it is there because the two different "calling on the dark side" - one for non-dark siders, one for people that have fallen to the dark side - are each phrased differently.
What I posted for the rule from the Star Wars Gamemaster Screeen, Revised, page 64, under Dark Side Characters, is exactly the same as what atgxtg posted from the 2nd Edition Revised & Expanded book, page 153.
So since one says "When a character successfully calls upon the Dark Side, he gets a Force Point which must be spent immediately -- this is in addition to any other Force Points which have been spent that round." and the other says "Dark Side characters may call upon the dark side to get Force Points." (notice the wording change). In another case of vagueness and ambiguity, it falls to each GM to interepret what the two different wordings mean. Again, NO official rules ever clarified this. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal - I still don't see how you are managing shooting and dodging. |
Will answer point by point...
| Bren wrote: |
How we do things.
(1) PC declares he is shooting at NPC. The range is medium, so both PC and GM know that the difficulty to hit is moderate and that the PC needs to roll between 11 and 15 to hit the NPC based on the range difficulty alone. |
Our group at conventions uses set numbers for each range bracket... short is easy (10), medium is moderate (15).. and so on.
| Bren wrote: |
(2) PC makes his roll and decides whether or not he wants to add any CPs. (If the NPC is full dodging the GM would probably let the PC know that fact at this point.) |
Gms usually tell them before they even make the roll if the enemy is dodging or not... and rolls the dodge before the pc rolls.
| Bren wrote: |
(3) While the PC is rolling, the GM simultaneously decides whether the NPC will use any CPs for his dodge and rolls the NPC’s dodge. |
That is actually rare unless NAMED high level npcs.. though i do admit it happens.. and the decision is made when the gm rolls.. then adds the CP total in.
| Bren wrote: |
(4) PC declares his roll (including any CPs used). GM tells the PC whether the roll hits the target based on either the dodge total including any CPs used or the range difficulty if no dodge was attempted. |
GM makes his total up, then see's what the pc has rolled.. 999 times out of 1000, if they already are succeeding before CP usage, they are told.. Rarely (for suspense sake) we still ask 'are you sure you like your number... 790 out of 1000 its is on defense, not offense this is done with (dodge of their own, soak, ship piloting..)
| Bren wrote: |
Note that since the PC does not know whether or not the NPC will or won’t choose to reaction dodge nor what any dodge total might be, the PC doesn’t know how high he needs to roll to succeed in hitting the target and so the PC doesn’t know how many CPs he might need to spend.
What are you doing differently? |
See 1-3..
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Given that Calling Upon the Dark Side is defined on page 86 of the rules as something that characters (with no limitation of any kind in the definition on what kind of characters can use Calling Upon the Dark Side) it seems inconsistent to interpet silence on quadding in the definition on page 86 as quadding-is-allowed, while simultaneously interpreting silence on quadding on page 152 as quadding-is-not-allowed. But as house rules, it seems fine and I understand the rationale. |
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Will answer point by point... |
OK, not exactly the RAW then. It sounds like you are treating PCs and NPCs differently with the PC's getting an extra benefit in knowing what the other guy rolled for his dodge ahead of time. Similarly, I assume the process is different when the PC is dodging? There the GM tells the PC what the NPC rolled to hit so the PC knows how good his dodge will need to be to succeed in being missed, right? |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if WEG had some answer for these thing that never got published? WEG went under right before gaming companies really started to use the internet to get rules fixes and such out.
I know some of the older RPG companies used to keep notes of rule fixes and clarifications.
And the various differences between the various edtions (and rules upgrades) result in further confusion and vagueness.
I think we all agree, even those GMs who use quadding, that it is a bad idea for a powerful NPC to quad up and use his skills in an effective manner and slaughter the PCs. The rules might (or might not) allow it, but a good GM shouldn't. It'S like the old randome wilderness encounter tables from AD&D. The results can be overkill, and there is not much the players can do to prevent, avoid, or deal with it, other than not play. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Will answer point by point... |
OK, not exactly the RAW then. It sounds like you are treating PCs and NPCs differently with the PC's getting an extra benefit in knowing what the other guy rolled for his dodge ahead of time. Similarly, I assume the process is different when the PC is dodging? There the GM tells the PC what the NPC rolled to hit so the PC knows how good his dodge will need to be to succeed in being missed, right? |
Grimace is right in that WHEN ASKED (or most often in the minor battles) i DO flat out tell them what the enemy had for their dodge/to hits... BUT it is not standard.
EG of combat
2 pcs on their own, get rumbled by a fire team of imp stormies (4 men + officer)..
Round 1, pc one shoots his pistol from his quick draw holster (one action to draw and fire it), PC 2 draws his pistol and shoots twice (3 actions total). Imps level their rifles and each shoots at PC 1.
Pcs gain init, so PC 1 shoots first. he rolls 18 (and i have the dodge rolled at 14).. Player of pc1 tells me he has a 18 to hit, and i say roll damage.
Later on, pc 2 rolls and gets a 19, while the imp he shoots at has a 24 for dodge).. i tell him "are you happy with that.
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