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Parry with Sabers
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
The Force would provide a Jedi no less guidance and direction if he were wielding a sword, staff or club than it would if he were wielding Lightsaber, but the RAW restricts him to a single usable weapon type, both in skills (Lightsaber) and Force Abilities (Lightsaber Combat). My perception of the Force and how FS characters relate to the SWU is much less restrictive than the RAW, and I have seen far too many errors in the RAW over the years to have any qualms about altering the RAW to fit the real SWU. IMO, this is just another case in point.


Can you provide examples of Jedi wielding melee weapons with a similar ease to that which they wield lightsabers from the Original Trillogy?

As far as I recall Luke, Vader, Obi-wan and Palpatine used Lightsabers or force powers exclusively.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you will pardon the ridiculous example, that is like saying that just because we never see anyone use the restroom in the SWU that humans in the SWU don't need to use the restroom at all.

Its an easy extrapolation to make that the Force can guide Jedi when using weapons other than lightsabers. After all, per Obi-wan, the Force both obeys the Jedi's commands and partially controls his actions. At no point does Obi-wan say that a Jedi must be wielding a Lightsaber for the Force to function in this fashion. Luke and Vader both use the Force to enhance their abilities in starfighter combat, which is much further removed from a Lightsaber than any hand-held weapon.

Perhaps you can explain to me you reasoning as to why the Lightsaber is so special, or the Force so limited, that a Jedi should only be able to enhance his combat skill when wielding one?
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I think about it the more I think that based on the information WEG had (IE the original trilogy) that making the Lightsaber a completely separate weapon skill was a good idea.

The Jedi and their Lightsabers is one of the main things that makes Star Wars something other than just another sci-fi movie.

Obi-wan giving Luke his father's Lightsaber is a turning point for the character, him training with the Lightsaber and extending his perception beyond his senses to deflect the drone's blasts introduces the audience to the idea that the Lightsaber is unique, able to parry blaster bolts.

Obi-wan lopping off an arm in Mos Eisley makes everyone in the entire cantina stop and take notice, these being didn't even blink when Greedo was shot but the elegant severing of an arm by a seemingly frail old man wielding a weapon from a time long ago makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Darth Vader's appearance on Bespin shrouded in smoke then illuminated with his red Lightsaber as the iconic snap-hiss sound cuts through the silence.

All of these examples and many more lead me to believe that WEG were trying to stay within the mythos of the Star Wars movies preserving the mystique of the Lightsaber and making it something distinct from all other melee weapons in the galaxy. If it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you but I don't think that a choice like that can be considered a mistake.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also add the scene from the arena on Genosis, with all the lightsabers lighting up...
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Esoomian
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good example but it's not one WEG would have had access to when they made the descision so it can't really be included.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that lightsabers should be special, but if they are special for story reasons as opposed to technical ones (ie. who uses it as opposed to how it is used), then making it a separate skill is the wrong way to go. Skills define what a character can and can't do, and unless one subscribes to the belief that a Lightsaber constructed by a Jedi has some sort of supernatural power, there is no reason that a person with a reasonable skill level in Melee Combat couldn't pick one up and wield it just like a sword. Your examples all show Jedi wielding lightsabers, which is perfectly alright, as the Lightsaber is well known as a Jedi's weapon. However, none of them exclude the possibility that a Jedi could use the Force to enhance other weaponry.

Granted, I do think that a Jedi constructed Lightsaber would perform better than any mundane weapon, for several reasons, but that doesnt mean a Jedi couldn't pick up a gaffi stick or force pike in a pinch and suddenly find that the Force abandoned him completely just because he wasn't wielding a specific kind of weapon.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
All of these examples and many more lead me to believe that WEG were trying to stay within the mythos of the Star Wars movies preserving the mystique of the Lightsaber and making it something distinct from all other melee weapons in the galaxy. If it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you but I don't think that a choice like that can be considered a mistake.
I wholly and unreservedly agree with this statement. (Just in case that wasn't obvious from prior postings.)
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S-Foil
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The example of wielding a lightsaber being akin to swinging a flashlight I think is spot on. A lightsaber isn't going to have the weight and balance of a regular melee weapon. Picking one up isn't like swinging a baseball bat. If you played little league you could pick up a bat and be somewhat effective in a fight with it. You could also pick up a sword and probably not cut your face off.

A lightsaber has an infinite number of edges, the weight is all in the handle, and when hits something does provide some resistance. Even touching part of it besides the handle is going to lead to trouble. I don't really see anything about a lightsaber that's similar to a bat or a sword. I think it makes perfect sense to be a weapon you need a unique skill to use with proficiency.

WEG's melee weapons skill doesn't cleanly handle a number of weapons. It was obviously written to handle a small set of weapons included in the core book and nothing else. For instance it doesn't handle flexible weapons (nunchaku, segmented staves, or chain whips) well. These weapons are nothing like solid melee weapons yet would potentially fall under the melee weapons skill.
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Fallon Kell
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias777 wrote:

Fallon Kell wrote:
All those things make the lightsaber easier to use, though.

It only makes it easier if you've overcome being used to how "regular" melee weapons work. The lightsaber is a superior weapon, but if you're hampered by habits based on the functionality of traditional weapons, those technical advantages can be negated...or even work against you.
Everything that had been listed there was an option that a novice lightsaber user might not be able to take advantage of. It's important to remember that just being unused to the advantages of a lightsaber doesn't create disadvantages that make it harder to use than a solid weapon.
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