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cheshire
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 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Here's another consideration. How often does you award Force points? That may make a real difference to how to treat this. To hear someone say that they use a Force point for attacks "often" causes me to question whether I'm handing them out much more infrequently than others.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Here's another consideration. How often does you award Force points? That may make a real difference to how to treat this. To hear someone say that they use a Force point for attacks "often" causes me to question whether I'm handing them out much more infrequently than others. |
Good Point. In my campaigns the players don't seem to use too many FPs-, unless they are Jedi. Jedi tend to rack up Fps quicker than non-Jedi and tend to have more FPs. "Dramatically Appropriate Moments" are a sort of collary to facing off against darksiders, and the nature of combat between Force wielders encouraging "doubling up" FPS. At least by the RAW.
But, your point only allpies to PCs.NPCs don't have to worry about getting through the rest of the game session, and can be more reckless, and problematic.Something like a Karkardon NPC with a good STR and +2D bite and 2 or 3 FPs could prove a real menace to the PCs,. And he only has to kill a PC once to make a real difference to a campaign. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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I very seldom have NPCs with Force points. Those that do are reoccurring villains that DO have a future to worry about.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Here's another consideration. How often does you award Force points? |
It depends.
If the PC uses a FP in a heroic manner, at a dramatically appropriate time, then we award a FP. Usually a few PCs (usually Force users) will have at most 1-2 opportunities to get a new force point over a moderate length adventure, say 4 game sessions (~ 20+ hours of play), most PCs will only have 1 opportunity in the same time frame, a few PCs may end up with no likely opportunities for that adventure.
If the PCs have a lot of Force Points (say 5+) their chance to get a new force point tends to go way, way down. For example, my Jedi PC has run for multiple long scenarios where he has used a FP in a heroic manner at a dramatically appropriate time and he still gets no new FPs.
| cheshire wrote: | | I very seldom have NPCs with Force points. Those that do are reoccurring villains that DO have a future to worry about. |
But most NPCs don't have to start from scratch with 18D in attributes, 7D in skills and slog their way through multiple adventures to advance. PCs often have to. If the NPC dies, the GM can just replace him with an equivalently tough or even tougher NPC. Players in many campaigns can't do that with their PCs.
I seldom see a PC use a FP unheroically, so our PCs tend not to lose FPs. Since most PCs that have been played for several years, they tend to have at least 3 FPs, more if they are Force Sensitive. This means they can save 1-2 FPs for a later big confrontation and still have 1 or more FPs to spend at an earlier point in the scenario. If there is a big combat confrontation, the PCs are typically outgunned, outnumbered, or all of the above so the FPs will come out. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | LOL! But at least it wasn't due to overwhelming success. |
I DO use that for melee weapons.
Take the Max damage value it can roll (7d = 41 points of damage)
Any damage you roll OVER that is applied as damage TO the weapon (which resists with its body).
| Quote: | | (1) I see FPs used for attack rolls often.* |
That's the most common use i see for them. Drop one to help take down the BBEG, or their henchmen. Or when overwhelmed by enemies so you can wittle them down.
| Quote: | | Here's another consideration. How often does you award Force points? That may make a real difference to how to treat this. To hear someone say that they use a Force point for attacks "often" causes me to question whether I'm handing them out much more infrequently than others. |
Since the majority are used when battling baddies either dramatically, or heroically, they usually get those spent back, and sometimes awarded another.. So they will increase their total slowly.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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In my group when I'm a player (which is most of the time) our GM doesn't seem to do any record keeping with regard to Force points. He awards them for dramatic heroism... but really, he just hands them out after the BBEG is defeated. If we did something particularly amazing, he'll hand one out then, too, but he's pretty casual about it.
Generally speaking, Force points are story awards that everyone gets, or else they did something particularly impressive at a critical moment (just like the RAW) and they get their 1 or 2 FP in return. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow people seem to be more free with Force Points than what I've experienced.
I've had a force sensitive character in a game for about five years and the maximum number of force points he's ever had is three and he's spent three force points in that entire span of time.
He spent one FP to make difficult shot from a crippled freighter which took took a Star destroyer offline and allowed the rebels to escape.
That resulted in him getting a Force Point returned and a bonus Force Point
He defiled a grave which resulted in him losing a Force point (back down to two)
He made a flying tackle to save a team mate (story detailed here) getting the force point replaced and a bonus force point (three force points).
Then a final force point spent to take a bunch of shots for someone and then throw a desk at the shooters. This Force point was returned but as the person I was helping was an unsavory character it was not heroic so no bonus point was awarded.
To return to the matter at hand I would not double the value of the natural weaponry to keep things even. If we were using the optional rules for martial arts and someone was performing a maneuver that did Strength + 1D damage a force point wouldn't make it 2x(Strength + 1D).
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | I very seldom have NPCs with Force points. Those that do are reoccurring villains that DO have a future to worry about. |
Personally, I have most of my NPCs statted out like PCs (18 attribute dice and all) and many carry force points. (The purpose being that I want my player to feel a little smaller in his own world than the average SWRPG player.)
I also play them like real people. They want to live to see next Tuesday just as much as PCs do. Probably more. They'll only use a force point for attack if they're cornered and scared, or defending loved ones, (and I'm not sure shark people have loved ones yet...)
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | Wow people seem to be more free with Force Points than what I've experienced.
I've had a force sensitive character in a game for about five years and the maximum number of force points he's ever had is three and he's spent three force points in that entire span of time. |
Cause and Effect. You have to spend Fps to earn Fps. If a PC never spends any Force points then thier FP total can't increase. But if a PC starts spending Fps freely in appropriate situations, his FP total will go up.
The thing with FPs is that a PC iwill, in most cases, at least get the FP back. So those with Fps are encourage to spend them. If Fps were more like CPs and didn't come back, then I think most of the Fp problems wouldn't exist. I think if characters were awarded Fps for being heroic, rather than by spending FPS, it would help. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | If a PC never spends any Force points then thier FP total can't increase. |
Not strictly true. You can earn a FP by acting heroically at a critical point without spending a FP. Otherwise, a character who starts with 1 FP and loses it by using it selfishly would never be able to have a FP ever again.
| Quote: | | But if a PC starts spending Fps freely in appropriate situations, his FP total will go up. |
This, however, is most certainly true.
| Quote: | | The thing with FPs is that a PC iwill, in most cases, at least get the FP back. |
It depends if the use is heroic vs. selfish. Using a FP just to save your own life means there is a good chance you won't get it back. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | If a PC never spends any Force points then thier FP total can't increase. |
Not strictly true. You can earn a FP by acting heroically at a critical point without spending a FP. Otherwise, a character who starts with 1 FP and loses it by using it selfishly would never be able to have a FP ever again. |
That only applies to characters with no FPs, at least according to the RAW.
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | But if a PC starts spending Fps freely in appropriate situations, his FP total will go up. |
This, however, is most certainly true. |
Painfully so, and IMO a major flaw with the rules. It is very easy for a character in a "dramatically appropriate" situation to "double up" his FPs. The only limits are how many "dramatically appropriate" situations a character can get into, and how long the situation can remain so, with a character operating at double codes.
Bad guys with Fps practically force PCs to increase thier Fps totals. If the Pcs don7t spend Fps they get overwhelmed.
| Quote: | | The thing with FPs is that a PC iwill, in most cases, at least get the FP back. |
It depends if the use is heroic vs. selfish. Using a FP just to save your own life means there is a good chance you won't get it back.[/quote]
Not really. Saving you own neck in a heroic situation will result in the return of the FP after the adventure. So if players are being true to the spirirt of the setting, any playing heroically, thier FPs will come back.
IMO that is a problem. Most of the life threatening situations PCs get into during the course of an adventure are heroic in nature (it goes with the setting), and players don't have to worry too much about getting thier Fps back, so any Fp increases are practically permanent. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | That only applies to characters with no FPs, at least according to the RAW. |
That's what I meant. Just that it was not impossible.
| Quote: | | The only limits are how many "dramatically appropriate" situations a character can get into, and how long the situation can remain so, with a character operating at double codes. |
We average 1 dramatically appropriate situation per adventure. Some adventures, especially 1 session ones, have none. Most have 1 moment. A few have more than 1 moment, but generally those are long adventures that take maybe 4+ sessions to play out.
| Quote: | | Not really. Saving you own neck in a heroic situation will result in the return of the FP after the adventure. So if players are being true to the spirirt of the setting, any playing heroically, thier FPs will come back. |
We are perhaps more strict on this than you are. But in general, most FPs that get used do get returned.
| Quote: | | ...players don't have to worry too much about getting thier Fps back, so any Fp increases are practically permanent. |
I had suggested to my co-GM that we instigate something like a FP increase roll. To limit this tendency as the number of FPs a character had increased. I believe I suggested that, after returning FPs at the end of an adventure, a force sensitive character who had heroically used a FP in a dramatically appropriate moment would roll 2D6. If the total was less than or equal to the character's current number of FPs the character would earn a new Force Point. Otherwise thre was no increase to the number of FPs. A non-force sensitive character (who has a limit of 5 FPs total) would maybe roll a D6-1. We never tried this as my co-GM disliked the idea. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: | | But if a PC starts spending Fps freely in appropriate situations, his FP total will go up. |
This, however, is most certainly true. |
Painfully so, and IMO a major flaw with the rules. It is very easy for a character in a "dramatically appropriate" situation to "double up" his FPs. The only limits are how many "dramatically appropriate" situations a character can get into, and how long the situation can remain so, with a character operating at double codes.
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With me, when i write my modules, i usually have only the 1 combat (or other) scene where it would be considered Dramatically heroic (and so where FP can be earned). As to how many can be earned... Usually half (or less) of what was spent.
EG John, kevan, cindy and mark are playing and get to the DEHM.
John spends 2 cp, one saving his butt (shocked he failed to see that eweb and so would have died had he not spent the fp), and one to shoot 4 of the stormies coming to claim an unconsious NPC they are after.
Kevan spends only the one, so he can wade into the midsts of the 8 other stroopers without worry of taking damage (darn those wookies).
Cindy drops 3. One to parry 9 blast shots coming in at both her and the NPC, one to med pack both him and John in the same round, and later near the end of the battle one to use Transfer life on Mark.
Mark who is not a combat monkey still decides to go toe to toe with the BBEG and his henchman (a royal guard). During the fight, he spends all 5 FP's he has just to prevent them from killing him, but at least keeps them occupied enough for the rest to gang up on them. The last round of battle his defenses slipped enough to get taken down to mortally wounded.
John spent 2. The one he dropped to save his own bacon is gone. The one spent to take the 4 troopers was heroic but not really dramatic. he gets it back.
Cindy, went through 3. The one she spent on the medpacking (which DID place her in jeopardy) was very heroic and dramatic, so not only does she get that back, but earns a bonus one. The transfer life was also heroic, but not dramatic (battle was over), so she only gets that back. The one parrying all the bolts was very dramatic (and since she did it to save the NPC) was also dramatic and heroic.. She gets it back and a 2nd earned one.
Kevan, since he was in no mortal jeopardy with the fact he was a wookie, only regains 1 of the 2 spent. No bonus.
Mark on the other hand, went through all 5 he had. That he is NOT a combat person, and went toe to toe with the BBEG on his own to tie him up, was both heroic and dramatic. He not only regains all 5 back, but earns 3 bonus. Since he is not force sensitive though, those 3 get turned into CP at the rate of 3cp per FP.
| Quote: |
Not really. Saving you own neck in a heroic situation will result in the return of the FP after the adventure. So if players are being true to the spirirt of the setting, any playing heroically, thier FPs will come back.
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I disagree. Spending one just to survive, even if the entire situation is heroic is still not making your 'saving your @$$' heroic. So by the rules is still lost.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Heck 2 of the GM's in sparks don't even DO the '+1 or more if FP spent at dramatic appro. time'.
They flat out ask..
"So what did you do in that battle you feel would have made the highlight real, or if that was made into a movie would be the scene always shown in the previews?"
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
I disagree. Spending one just to survive, even if the entire situation is heroic is still not making your 'saving your @$$' heroic. So by the rules is still lost. |
Check out the rules for Reduce Injury... |
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