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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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<shrug> Whatever. It just seems silly to me to have the definitions for Form I and Lightsaber be basically the same thing, yet still require two separate skills. To do exactly the same thing.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Agreed. That's why I incorporated a Force power tied into each form. Without it, you're still just swinging a lightsaber around no matter what form you use. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Agreed. That's why I incorporated a Force power tied into each form. Without it, you're still just swinging a lightsaber around no matter what form you use. |
There is no mention in the source material of any of the Forms having their own Force power. The closest it gets is Form IV, which is based around using the Force to enhance the character's physical abilities in combat. All the others are purely about technique with a lightsaber.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| So... A Jedi doesn't use the Force to enhance his prowess in combat? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | So... A Jedi doesn't use the Force to enhance his prowess in combat? |
He does, but in the RAW that is represented by the Lightsaber Combat power, as well as the various other powers. All of the various Forms focus on technique with the actual lightsaber, on positioning and manipulation of the blade. The only exception (based on the description) is Form IV, which integrates Force-enhanced mobility into its combat technique.
I'm curious where you're getting your source information from with regards to a write-up on the Seven Forms. I studied the matter pretty thoroughly when I wrote up my own version, and I don't recall any mention of the various Forms having their own Force power.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm curious where you're getting your source information from with regards to a write-up on the Seven Forms. I studied the matter pretty thoroughly when I wrote up my own version, and I don't recall any mention of the various Forms having their own Force power. |
Maybe Yoda talks to him?  |
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
BTW, Has anybody else here seen the Anarchist's Cookbook? |
Not in person, but I have seen Fight Club, which is basically the same thing!
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | Maybe Yoda talks to him? |
Har, har.
| crmcneill wrote: |
He does, but in the RAW that is represented by the Lightsaber Combat power, as well as the various other powers. All of the various Forms focus on technique with the actual lightsaber, on positioning and manipulation of the blade. The only exception (based on the description) is Form IV, which integrates Force-enhanced mobility into its combat technique.
I'm curious where you're getting your source information from with regards to a write-up on the Seven Forms. I studied the matter pretty thoroughly when I wrote up my own version, and I don't recall any mention of the various Forms having their own Force power. |
I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised to find out that I house-rule lightsaber combat. BECAUSE of that house rule, I changed lightsaber combat from being a Force power to just being a feature of the lightsaber (and sense is not added to lightsaber skill ever).
I did not create a new force power for each form. Rather, I developed a new application for old force powers for each form that is representative of the strengths of that form.
FWIW, I don't worry about what any source says about anything unless it comes right out of the movies. This doesn't mean I won't included EU canon in my games/campaigns, but if I don't like it, or it clashes with what I've got going on, then I just disregard it (way too much to keep track of).
Since you seem somewhat interested, I'll show you what I mean with the Force powers (these are based on what I see happening in the movies, not what the SW Encyclopedia or any other print source says, so you'll want to take them with a grain of salt).
Form 1's power tie-in is emptiness. Instead of the single re-roll, the character can treat any single die as being a 6 (but it won't explode).
Form 2's special power is receptive telepathy (the closest thing I could get to "Empathy"). The Jedi uses it to predict his opponent's intentions and counter them (this form emphasizes elegant defense with opportunistic ripostes).
Form 3's power is danger sense. The Jedi has reached a level of precognition with this power that warns him of every strike/blaster bolt. NB: my version of danger sense is actually enhanced by knowing Form 3, and Form 3 is equal to the basic lightsaber skill on offense, but it's incredible in defense.
Form 4 uses a special application of enhance attribute which applies a bonus based on the user's skill in form 4, rather than what is shown in the power's official description. This special bonus starts out small, and grows slowly with the the form 4 user's skill, but it lasts for the duration of combat. Form 4 provides the biggest bonus to melee attacks of any form, though it does nothing special for parries (the Jedi does, however, derive a dodge bonus from this form, to account for his heightened mobility)
Form 5 combines with combat sense to maximize it's effectiveness. If combat sense is active, the Jedi can redirect a number of blaster shots equal to his dice in Form 5 as free actions (these actions are always rolled at the full die code). Also, with my LSC house rule, Form 5 provides a bigger bonus to attack rolls than other forms, and generally results in the most amount of damage per strike (a minor perk, considering the damage a lightsaber can do).
Form 6 is actually undergoing revision right now, but here's what I've got so far: (A) skill dice are added to lightsaber, as usual, however, no other combat benefit is gained. Instead, the character gains bonus pips that he can apply to any skill other than his lightsaber skill. The bonus pips are gained each time a new whole die is gained, and the number of pips equals the new number of dice in the (A) skill.
Form 7 combines with Farseeing (<---this will be revised based on some recent research) to determine an opponent's weakness. The Jedi may make a full round action to use this special version of the power to find the course of action that will lead to his opponent's downfall. If successful, he may add a bonus to his attack rolls equal to +1 for each die he has in sense. Also, the Jedi may make a number of attacks in a round equal to his number of dice in the (A) skill. These attacks do not impose MAPs on each other, but they do impose MAPs on other actions.
At the end of combat, the Jedi must make a willpower roll. Each enemy that he personally killed increases the difficulty. If he fails, he gains a dark side point.
The most difficult powers to write were Forms 4 and 5, though, I have recently changed Form 6 to what you see, and am in the process of changing it again and it's proving difficult. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I hope it works for you, but I can't make heads or tails of it. If there is one thing that canon is pretty consistent on, it is that a Jedi's combat ability is enhanced through the Force, and adding his Sense dice is a pretty realistic method of doing that. I've played with several different variations of Lightsaber Combat as well, and the one I liked the most was JT Swift's conversion of Lightsaber Combat and Combat Sense, which dropped the Control + Damage aspect entirely.
The problem with proposing a new rule (such as your list of advanced skills) is that if it is part of a larger patchwork of house rules of which the rest of the forum is unaware, we won't understand the context. As is the case here.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, though the original intent of the list I put up was just ideas for (A) skills, not really meant to go deep into details, as each house-rule should be left to the particular GM/group to develop.
That's why I didn't put up the actual rules I wrote, since they wouldn't make sense to anyone here, without having the total context. It just seemed as though my proposal that Form 1 was anything other than the basic skill was going to earn me a dark side point 
You've got PM. |
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