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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793
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 Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Plus we're missing an obvious point.
Sorry, not trying to be facetious...
Shielding most certainly does protect against ion attacks in WEG SWRPG.
Particle shielding. It's part of the hull code.
In early period Old Republic gaming however, the ray and particle shielding is separately listed from the hull code and each other.
Maybe you're just saying you prefer Old Republic era gaming mechanics? That's cool, it's called Information Tech level.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Gamer wrote: | That same video game action that allows you to take on and defeat star destroyers and other capital ships as well as large space stations with a single fighter.  |
The only time I ever saw one starfighter take on an ISD in a video game all on its own and blow it up was when a friend used a cheat code on X-Wing that gave him unlimited health and ammunition. He just parked off the SD's side and blasted massive amounts of proton torpedoes into it until it blew up. |
Without cheating, I got 20 ISD kills and dozens of other capital starship kills in X-wing. It takes patience, practice, tactics, speed, and multitasking, but if a capital ship stayed in system long enough to be destroyed, I destroyed it.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:09 am Post subject: |
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The 2 i always had issues with were Corellian corvettes.. had to get right into that 'sweet' spot in their rear.. but usually trying i got blown to bits. And Neb Bs..
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Fallon Kell
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Neb Bs were tough for me, too. Especially Harasser 1 and Harasser 2 on the second mission of TOD 1. Two laser cannons, no warheads, no ions, and two whole frigates worth of guns firing on you, plus their fighters.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16409
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | The 2 i always had issues with were Corellian corvettes.. had to get right into that 'sweet' spot in their rear.. but usually trying i got blown to bits. And Neb Bs.. |
So, per the video games, you've blown up a couple dozen Star Destroyers by yourself, but always have problems with the little ships? Perhaps I should have been clearer and said that I prefer the action in the X-Wing novels, which are based on the video games. One starfighter being able to take out a mile-long space going fortress seems over the top by a very large margin.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16409
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | Plus we're missing an obvious point.
Sorry, not trying to be facetious...
Shielding most certainly does protect against ion attacks in WEG SWRPG.
Particle shielding. It's part of the hull code. |
So, there are actually shields in existence that block ion cannon, but they're only used for navigation, and no one out of a galaxy full of brilliant scientists has had the thought "Why don't we integrate these with the combat shields so that they can stop ion cannon blasts, too?" Having separate shields like that was a WEG 2E invention, and a silly one. There is no mention of navigation shielding in any of the films or in WEG 1E, but along comes 2E and all of a sudden, there they are, along with the new rule that shields don't affect ion cannon. All because someone at WEG said so. I think it's ridiculous, and so I have the new rule that I use that allows shields to partially soak ion cannon blasts without changing everything's stats. The end.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, just write it like this:
X-Wing Starfighter
hull: 2D
shields: 2D (particle*), 1D (energy**)
*particle shielding defends against ion attacks and physical objects.
**energy shielding does not protect against ion weapons.
Information tech level.
This is already how that older tech worked. In space tech the particle shielding is just incorporated into the hull code so that you don't have to roll seperately for it.
so space tech for the very same thing:
X-Wing Starfighter
hull: 4D*
shields: 1D (does not protect against ion attack)
*if particle shielding is compromised reduce hull code by -2D
You're talking about extrapolating the development of space tech, which by definition takes you to information tech, and that appears to be what you're talking about here. |
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Also, an ion stream is a particle assault. It's not electromagnetic, they have mass. Not energy, physical. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | *if particle shielding is compromised reduce hull code by -2D |
Yeah, but that particle shield rule only works for certain ships. It appears that nav shields are all that holds some ships together, like the TIE fighter with hull 2D. Also, one might note that there are several starfighters with a hull of <2D e.g. Incom T-36 Skyfighter or the Modified Tenloss Hornet Interceptor, both of which have hull: 1D+2. So without nav shields they are -1 hull? That seems a little strange. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16409
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | | You're talking about extrapolating the development of space tech, which by definition takes you to information tech, and that appears to be what you're talking about here. |
What are you talking about?
What I am extrapolating is that WEG took one scene from ESB and made a blanket ruling that ion cannons ignore shields. They then contradict themselves by saying that there are actually shields that block ion cannon, but they are only used for navigation, and in spite of all the scientists out there in the galaxy working on projects with military applications, not one of these geniuses has made the realization that, if navigation shields stop ion cannon, why don't we make more powerful version to use with the existing combat shields so that the shields can stop lasers and ion cannon and missile weapons, instead of just turbolasers.
Your suggestion for using Technology ratings would require a rewrite of every existing starship stat; something I don't have the time or the energy for. Far better to come up with a rule that allows shields to partially ablate ion cannon shots (which is the way it is portrayed in the EU novels).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | vanir wrote: | | *if particle shielding is compromised reduce hull code by -2D |
Yeah, but that particle shield rule only works for certain ships. It appears that nav shields are all that holds some ships together, like the TIE fighter with hull 2D. Also, one might note that there are several starfighters with a hull of <2D e.g. Incom T-36 Skyfighter or the Modified Tenloss Hornet Interceptor, both of which have hull: 1D+2. So without nav shields they are -1 hull? That seems a little strange. |
I can't remember RAW (lol I used the term), as I don't have any books with me, but there was certainly a minimum hull rating. It should be in 2E handbook. |
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vanir
Jedi
Joined: 11 May 2011
Posts: 793
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | vanir wrote: | | You're talking about extrapolating the development of space tech, which by definition takes you to information tech, and that appears to be what you're talking about here. |
What are you talking about?
What I am extrapolating is that WEG took one scene from ESB and made a blanket ruling that ion cannons ignore shields. They then contradict themselves by saying that there are actually shields that block ion cannon, but they are only used for navigation, and in spite of all the scientists out there in the galaxy working on projects with military applications, not one of these geniuses has made the realization that, if navigation shields stop ion cannon, why don't we make more powerful version to use with the existing combat shields so that the shields can stop lasers and ion cannon and missile weapons, instead of just turbolasers.
Your suggestion for using Technology ratings would require a rewrite of every existing starship stat; something I don't have the time or the energy for. Far better to come up with a rule that allows shields to partially ablate ion cannon shots (which is the way it is portrayed in the EU novels). |
I'm really not trying to offend you, merely pointing out that shields already defend against ion weapons, they are a particle attack and particle shields defend against them.
Particle shields are incorporated into the hull rating of space tech starships.
They are separately listed in information tech starships.
You want to list the ion (ie. particle) shielding separately from the hull code.
That is information tech starship design. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16409
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| vanir wrote: | I'm really not trying to offend you, merely pointing out that shields already defend against ion weapons, they are a particle attack and particle shields defend against them.
Particle shields are incorporated into the hull rating of space tech starships.
They are separately listed in information tech starships. |
Where are you getting this rule from?
| Quote: | You want to list the ion (ie. particle) shielding separately from the hull code.
That is information tech starship design. |
What I want is for combat shields to actually function against ion cannon the way they are portrayed in the rest of the EU, in that they actually block incoming attacks, as opposed to letting 2 of the 3 main types of damage slide right through, as WEG would have us believe.
Honestly, I don't even bother with navigation shields. There is no listing on the damage chart that says "Ship loses its navigation shields. Subtract 2D from Hull code."
And that's another issue. The hull code is used to resist all types of damage, including energy weapons, so why are 2D worth of particle shields effective against energy weapons as well? The rule was not well thought out at all, and (to me) smacks more of poor editing and bad planning on the part of WEG than a workable rule.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | The 2 i always had issues with were Corellian corvettes.. had to get right into that 'sweet' spot in their rear.. but usually trying i got blown to bits. And Neb Bs.. |
So, per the video games, you've blown up a couple dozen Star Destroyers by yourself, but always have problems with the little ships? Perhaps I should have been clearer and said that I prefer the action in the X-Wing novels, which are based on the video games. One starfighter being able to take out a mile-long space going fortress seems over the top by a very large margin. |
Yea.. cause unlike the ISD;s those smaller ships don't have a shield generator to take out.. thereby making them easier to destroy.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16409
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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So, ESB is showing on Spike TV right now, and it just hit the scene where the ion cannon takes out the star destroyer. It shows the ISD exhibiting zero forward movement and drifting to one side as the transport flies past. Assuming the screen shot is from a fixed point in space, it's a reasonable assumption that the ion cannon disabled the ISD's engines.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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