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Jekolmy
Cadet
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, I never would have figured that a quick question about how Ion cannons work to turn into a three page debate, but that's very nice still.
I have to say that I like crmcneill's ion damage against shields... it makes ion cannon useful, without making them 'must-have' weapons by allowing them to bypass shields. That being said I really can't believe that Ion cannon directly target the shield generators after passing through shielding (ie it may be possible for the ion blast to do enough damage to travel through the shield and affect the ship without dropping the shields) but it would make sense that the strain on the shield generators could cause them to overload... just the same as say a turbolaser or proton torpedo broadside/salvo could.
As an aside do the damage levels for similar (or the same) weapons change from ship to ship? As an example look at the Victory II in the Starships Stats R&E (admittedly fanbased... but I haven't gotten any books as I'm on the road still) has 7D turbolaser batteries.. and the Imperial-I Turbolaser batteries deal 10D damage. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Personally, I'm working on stuff for my own game.. which likely won't be strictly Starwars... but I am seriously looking to include some serious fleet actions so any explanation about the differences between damage on identical weapons systems would be great. (I may just post that in a separate thread if it pulls the topic off on a tangent) |
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Of course, there is an even simpler fix. We could treat ion cannon attacks as normal, but make the results Shields Blown / Controls Ionized, so that ion cannon function as described in the RAW, but they disable the shield generators first before disabling the ship's hardware systems. |
Another possible fix is to assume that Ion Cannons are only stopped by shields so shields work normally but the hull has no effect on them.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jekolmy wrote: | | Heh, I never would have figured that a quick question about how Ion cannons work to turn into a three page debate, but that's very nice still. |
It happens. There have been many a monster created on this forum by asking a simple question.
| Quote: | | I have to say that I like crmcneill's ion damage against shields... it makes ion cannon useful, without making them 'must-have' weapons by allowing them to bypass shields. |
:D
| Quote: | | That being said I really can't believe that Ion cannon directly target the shield generators after passing through shielding (ie it may be possible for the ion blast to do enough damage to travel through the shield and affect the ship without dropping the shields) but it would make sense that the strain on the shield generators could cause them to overload... just the same as say a turbolaser or proton torpedo broadside/salvo could. |
I agree. I think it's more likely that shields function by absorbing the energy of the attack somehow, and that ion attacks, while not actually penetrating straight through shields, do overload them with the energy delivered.
| Quote: | | As an aside do the damage levels for similar (or the same) weapons change from ship to ship? As an example look at the Victory II in the Starships Stats R&E (admittedly fanbased... but I haven't gotten any books as I'm on the road still) has 7D turbolaser batteries.. and the Imperial-I Turbolaser batteries deal 10D damage. Does anyone have any ideas on this? |
Personally, I'd rather do a complete rewrite of those stats. There is at least one instance where the stats completely disagree with the capsule (The Strike Cruiser is supposed to be vulnerable to critical hits, but its stats give it a Hull of 6D, just 1D below the much larger ISD. There is little or no consistency, and it sometimes seems that the authors picked the weapon stats at random.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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For the strike cruiser, perhaps they wanted to put in a rule about targeting specific weak points at a lesser hull..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | For the strike cruiser, perhaps they wanted to put in a rule about targeting specific weak points at a lesser hull.. |
Then where is the rule? Without it, the Strike Cruiser is far, far tougher than its description says it should be.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hence why i said perhaps they wanted to put it in, but either it got cut, or they felt it better left to gm's discretion.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Hence why i said perhaps they wanted to put it in, but either it got cut, or they felt it better left to gm's discretion. |
It certainly wouldn't be the first editorial failure to be discovered in the WEG material.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14359
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Hence why i said perhaps they wanted to put it in, but either it got cut, or they felt it better left to gm's discretion. |
It certainly wouldn't be the first editorial failure to be discovered in the WEG material. |
No it wouldn't...
I would say
Targeting Spot X. +10 diff. Hull 5d vice 6.
Spot y, +15 diff, 4d hull
Spot z, +20 diff, 3d hull..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I would say
Targeting Spot X. +10 diff. Hull 5d vice 6.
Spot y, +15 diff, 4d hull
Spot z, +20 diff, 3d hull.. |
It could also be a Wild Dice roll...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Kemper Boyd
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 68
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| One thing I've been considering is to give capital ships three layers to absorb damage: shields, armor and hull. It would make more options available in regards to how ships work: for example, Bulk Freighters have minimal armor as opposed to Corellian Gunships, but due to size issues, something that goes through the armor of a Gunship probably knocks out a system or two. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | It could also be a Wild Dice roll... |
I like that. It's simple. So if the Strike Cruiser rolls a 1 on the wild die for the hull roll then what happens differently? Could we just increase the damage (if any) by one level, so ionization --> light damage --> heavy damage --> severe damage --> destroyed? That would account for a lucky shot hitting a weak point in the hull. Thoughts?
| Kemper Boyd wrote: | | One thing I've been considering is to give capital ships three layers to absorb damage: shields, armor and hull. It would make more options available in regards to how ships work: for example, Bulk Freighters have minimal armor as opposed to Corellian Gunships, but due to size issues, something that goes through the armor of a Gunship probably knocks out a system or two. |
Interesting. I like the idea that a military ship is harder to penetrate but that a big bulk freighter has lots of noncritical areas to hit. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | It could also be a Wild Dice roll... |
I like that. It's simple. So if the Strike Cruiser rolls a 1 on the wild die for the hull roll then what happens differently? Could we just increase the damage (if any) by one level, so ionization --> light damage --> heavy damage --> severe damage --> destroyed? That would account for a lucky shot hitting a weak point in the hull. Thoughts? |
That's what I was thinking. The only drawback is that it doesn't account for the specific targeting of known weak points by experienced pilots.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | That's what I was thinking. The only drawback is that it doesn't account for the specific targeting of known weak points by experienced pilots. |
Yes. That occurred to me as well. But it's simple, so I am probably willing to accept that it doesn't fully align with the fluff text and treat it as a hull design flaw rather than a targeting opportunity.
As a second option, one could allow targeting a weak point on the Strike Cruiser (using the called shot rule with a size modification for scale) to do (a) extra damage or (b) increase the effect of any damage so ionization --> light damage --> heavy damage --> severe damage --> destroyed. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16404
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | As a second option, one could allow targeting a weak point on the Strike Cruiser (using the called shot rule with a size modification for scale) to do (a) extra damage or (b) increase the effect of any damage so ionization --> light damage --> heavy damage --> severe damage --> destroyed. |
Alternately, if one were using the precision targeting rules found in the Far Orbit Project (or some variation thereof), a Strike Cruiser could take extra damage on a successful precision attack.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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And if one were using the targeting rules one would most likely be hitting lightly or non-armored areas.
I find this idea interesting. New thread, perhaps?
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