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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | | 1) As I have said, I think ad nauseum, this is a false dichotomy. Many others have said they don't need a mechanic to get interesting, dramatic player choices. The obvious reductio ad absurdum of your position is to roll dice for every PC decision. No one on this forum is advocating either never rolling dice or rolling for all decisions. |
That there are, but there are also many who flat out ignore those aspects, unless there is some sort of mechanic (such as alignment shifting, therefore lose a level, in adnd) to MAKE them use those. |
Which is one reason why most of my play is with players and GMs I know and trust rather than random strangers. I realize that doesn't work for you in Sparks. If you see value in this, you might want to joinn crmcneill in his quest.
I am unintersted in the quest for two reasons.
(I) I don't need the solution for my players.
(II) My experience tells me the effort is doomed to futility and it will all end in tears in at least one of three ways:
a) It will require a significantly different system than the simple D6 we know and love.
b) It will require the addition of many new skills/attributes/traits to the existing system.
c) It won't succeed at doing what is required and the law of unintended consequences will come into play; for example, the simple roll vs. willpower system will just result in PCs with very high willpowers to avoid random dice and the GM controlling the character.
Good luck to you if you join the quest and remember to pick the humble clay cup.  |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | It would only be reductio ad absurdum if I was, in fact, planning to convert every player action into a dice roll... |
No. Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd") is a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd consequence e.g. you ask "well then why roll any dice at all" to disprove my position and I in turn say "why not roll dice to make all decisions" to disprove your position. Typically it is considered a logical fallacy. I was not using it to disprove anything. Merely observing that it applies equally to both our positions.
Good luck with your quest. |
Have we all of a sudden been teleported back to high school philosophy or english 101??  8) 8)
| Quote: | | Which is one reason why most of my play is with players and GMs I know and trust rather than random strangers. |
I'd love to if i could ever find any damn players in my neck of the woods.. Heck i have only recently gotten some potential 2nd ed adnd players...
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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Have we all of a sudden been teleported back to high school philosophy or english 101?? 8) 8) |
Apparently. 
Join discussions on Rancor Pit; you get Star Wars D6 discussions and as a bonus a reprise of Philosophy 101.
Up next: is use of the force inherent or learned – what does Plato’s Allegory of the Cave tell us. |
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Rerun941
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I'd love to if i could ever find any d*mn players in my neck of the woods.. Heck i have only recently gotten some potential 2nd ed adnd players... |
You might want to try to drum up some leads over at Keesler AFB in Biloxi. I always had good luck when I was there for Tech School. There were a couple of comic/game stores clustered near the base (Pre-Katrina), too.
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Han - "That bad, huh?" |
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Have we all of a sudden been teleported back to high school philosophy or english 101?? 8) 8) |
Apparently.
Join discussions on Rancor Pit; you get Star Wars D6 discussions and as a bonus a reprise of Philosophy 101.
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It goes with the territory/topic. Lightside/Darkside is a philosophical concept, and the Force is a metaphysical one.
| Bren wrote: |
Up next: is use of the force inherent or learned – what does Plato’s Allegory of the Cave tell us. |
Rats! I was hoping for a discussion on the relative merits o Twi'lek slave girls vs. Orion Slave girls. The Star Wars vs. Star Trek debate that no one has adequately covered, thank goodness.
| garlhal wrote: |
I'd love to if i could ever find any d*mn players in my neck of the woods.. Heck i have only recently gotten some potential 2nd ed adnd players... |
I know what you mean. In my experience, I have spent decades buying RPGs that I would love to play (Star Wars D6 being one such RPG) but all I ever get the chance to play in D&D. D&D is what most of the people play around here, and when I can get them to try another RPG, they kinda go into some sort of reactionary shock when things don't work they same was as they do in D&D. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I'd love to if i could ever find any d*mn players in my neck of the woods.. Heck i have only recently gotten some potential 2nd ed adnd players... |
You might want to try to drum up some leads over at Keesler AFB in Biloxi. I always had good luck when I was there for Tech School. There were a couple of comic/game stores clustered near the base (Pre-Katrina), too. |
The only one is Jack's that still is standing, and i have had fliers up for gamers for well over 3 years. I have been called three times by 3.0/4.0 d&ders harassing me for still being old school, twice by 4.0 players wanting to know if i gm that system, and twice by people interested in battle tech, wanting to know if i also do warhammer...
| Quote: | | I know what you mean. In my experience, I have spent decades buying RPGs that I would love to play (Star Wars D6 being one such RPG) but all I ever get the chance to play in D&D. D&D is what most of the people play around here, and when I can get them to try another RPG, they kinda go into some sort of reactionary shock when things don't work they same was as they do in D&D. |
I successfully converted a 3.0 player to D6 starwars, but it was a massive initial shock to him..
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
I successfully converted a 3.0 player to D6 starwars, but it was a massive initial shock to him.. |
LOL! I've been there. I had some players iny group who I had to remind that no matter how much experience they get, they will never be as tough as a Star Destroyer.
Players seem to think that every other game must work just like D&D and try to use certain ideas and tactics that just don't make sense unless you are playing D&D. For example, my group nearly got into a stand up fight against Ventress, a bunch of druids, and a Separatists cruiser. The thought process was something like they must be able to take them, since I was too experienced a Gm not to balance the encounter to the PCs abilities. Lucklily one player taked the rest out of it. |
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | For example, my group nearly got into a stand up fight against Ventress, a bunch of druids, and a Separatists cruiser. The thought process was something like they must be able to take them, since I was too experienced a Gm not to balance the encounter to the PCs abilities. Lucklily one player taked the rest out of it. |
What, they didn't realize that you had "balanced" the encounter so that the PCs could run just a little bit faster than the bad guys could chase after them?  |
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Players seem to think that every other game must work just like D&D and try to use certain ideas and tactics that just don't make sense unless you are playing D&D. For example, my group nearly got into a stand up fight against Ventress, a bunch of druids, and a Separatists cruiser. The thought process was something like they must be able to take them, since I was too experienced a Gm not to balance the encounter to the PCs abilities. Lucklily one player taked the rest out of it. |
Precicely. They seemed to be in the mind set, everything must be made around them. and that there should be no lasting penalties (see how they nerfed energy draining, petrif etc, and made raising the dead easier).
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Bren
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually prefer tailoring the scenario to the PCs in Star Wars. But that doesn't mean they can beat every opponent they meet. It's not like the opponents are calibrated to a "dungeon level." It just means that I am willing to design a scenario that will let the PCs find a way to either survive to fight another day or to defeat their opponents. Often, they can do both, but not always. Part of the players' job is figuring out if a given scenario design is an inclusive or an exclusive or. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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The outlook is one of the more humorous by products of applying logic and experience to D&D adventure design. Basically, in D&D all opponents exist to be defeated in combat by the PCs. So i it is there, it can be defeated. If it is there and cannot be defeated in combat, the DM did something wrong.
My current group is made of "redeemed" D&D players, and they occasionally backslide.
One fun bit occurred awhile back when I ran an adventure involving an Acklay. One of the players was telling a friend about the adventure, and showed the guy the Acklay's stats from the complied stats book. The friend had a little bit of a fit and said "Why give it stats if they can't kill it?". He was completely serious, and couldn't understand how they could use such things in the game.
The idea that the Acklay was an obstacle to be overcome by brains other than brawn completely escaped is notice. |
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Fallon Kell
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Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
The only one is Jack's that still is standing, and i have had fliers up for gamers for well over 3 years. I have been called three times by 3.0/4.0 d&ders harassing me for still being old school, twice by 4.0 players wanting to know if i gm that system, and twice by people interested in battle tech, wanting to know if i also do warhammer...
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Good golly, it's like sorting through minimum system requirements! I live a half hour's drive (or 3 hr bus ride) from my player, and so, sometimes we play via e-mail. It radically changes the dynamic, I know, but if you really need a D6 fix, it may be your best option.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully when i retire from the Navy in Jan 2012, and move up north (thinking around indy, or in ohio), i might have a better crop of gamers.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Hopefully when i retire from the Navy in Jan 2012, and move up north (thinking around indy, or in ohio), i might have a better crop of gamers. |
It wouldn't huirt to put out some feelers now. I'm a civilian living in a city where I've lived for years, and and the pickings around here are pretty slim. I can find gamers, but most are so bad as to be painful to game with. |
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