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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Sure moving full speed through obstacles will make you hard to hit but the obsticals themselves are factored into the basic to-hit roll and the speed makes you harder to hit by giving the person less time to actually hit you. |
How are they factored into the to hit roll? I don't think I've ever seen a rule for that.
I'm not talking just about things that obstruct the line of sight between the target and the shooter, I'm also talking about terrain obstacles that force the target to veer left or right, duck, jump over, vary speed, etc. These are all things that happen in the course of running that affect the attacker's lead to varying degrees
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Esoomian
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry I misspoke (mistyped?) they should be factored into the roll. I've not seen any hard and fast rules for it either but if a ship were going all out through an asteroid field then about half to a third of the number I add to the 'terrain' difficulty for the movement roll is what I'd add to the shooter's difficulty to represent the added difficulty in hitting a target weaving through such an environment.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | Sorry I misspoke (mistyped?) they should be factored into the roll. I've not seen any hard and fast rules for it either but if a ship were going all out through an asteroid field then about half to a third of the number I add to the 'terrain' difficulty for the movement roll is what I'd add to the shooter's difficulty to represent the added difficulty in hitting a target weaving through such an environment. |
That rule seems fair. I am just of the opinion that the speed the character / vehicle is moving should also be factored in. Not by a lot, but it should be taken into consideration.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I can see it might make a difference but if I was going to do such a thing I'd probably only add +1 to the difficulty for every two movement levels so someone moving all out is only basic difficulty +2 to hit.
I suppose if they're going all out through an asteroid field then that +2 might make the difference though.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | I can see it might make a difference but if I was going to do such a thing I'd probably only add +1 to the difficulty for every two movement levels so someone moving all out is only basic difficulty +2 to hit.
I suppose if they're going all out through an asteroid field then that +2 might make the difference though. |
I think I would limit the bonuses to High and All-Out Speeds, and give the bonus at every level. IMO, Cruising speed is little more than a fast walk for a character. Movement at the higher speeds would be where things would get interesting.
Of course, a character moving at High or All-Out is moving more than 10 meters per round, and thus falls into the targeting range of a Stormtrooper's MFTAS; one more way to make stormies more formidable.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Full dodge running |
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| leao wrote: | How it works for moving fast with a vehicle and full dodge?
It is strange that I can’t make any other action the round of full dodge, but I have to drive.
The situation is:
- I’m moving at double speed in a normal terrain
- I want to make a full dodge
- I have to roll twice (one for moving and one for dodge) or just one?
- I have to roll with MAP -1D (move and dodge) or without?
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2 rolls. 1 to maneuver through the terrain, 1 to make a combat dodge. You cannot combine movement with full dodging. So as a pc dodging in blaster base combat, at most i have allowed half a move (in one direction or the other) to be considered as part of your Full dodge. Same goes for ship/vehicle combat.
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If I’m moving at doublespeed with a YT I can’t just “get nowhere”. I can’t stop, I still have to move because the ship is going… |
Well, since you are spinning/ducking/duking/sliding/corkscrewing etc you are still "Moving" you are just not going anywhere... If you DO want to actually gain movement (say from a fixed weapons emplacement so you increase the range from it) you can only do a combat dodge, not a full one.
| Quote: | I don’t get it. All time I make a full dodge I have to loose one level of speed?
And it don’t answer my question. Do you mean that when I do a full dodge I can’t roll for drive? It means as a 0 on drive test… |
Yup. Making a full dodge (whether as a pc or for a ships pilit) is ALL THEY Are doing. Ergo your speed drops (as you are not keeping up with the throttle being pushed foward), and you don't really go anywhere.
Have you ever watched the movie Double team with Jean claude van dam and Dennis Rodman? Watch the scene where when JCVD was being shot at he spun on the floor / flipped?? THAT was him doing a full dodge.
| Quote: | Do you become more difficult to hit when moving at different speeds as well?
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By the RAW, no. Other than for missile fire.
| Quote: | I don't think moving All-Out should offer the same penalties to hit as a Full Dodge, but a moving object should technically be harder to hit simply by dint of a moving target being a more difficult target. Of course, something like this would be where the MFTAS system on a Stormtrooper would really come into play.
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Not really. You are moving in a set direction at a set speed when going all out (since that is all you can do, you get to do no maneuvering), so as you are going straight it should IMO Be EASIER to target you. not harder.
| Quote: | I agree. Also even if the target is moving broadside on to the attacker a straight movement is easy to compensate for.
All-out move can be a defense if the target can move out of range before being hit, which obviously only works if it is moving away from the attacker in the first place. |
AND they have the inititiave.
| Quote: | Sorry I misspoke (mistyped?) they should be factored into the roll. I've not seen any hard and fast rules for it either but if a ship were going all out through an asteroid field then about half to a third of the number I add to the 'terrain' difficulty for the movement roll is what I'd add to the shooter's difficulty to represent the added difficulty in hitting a target weaving through such an environment.
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Nice house rule, but since this is the official rules thread, that should be left for another thread...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Full dodge running |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | I don't think moving All-Out should offer the same penalties to hit as a Full Dodge, but a moving object should technically be harder to hit simply by dint of a moving target being a more difficult target. Of course, something like this would be where the MFTAS system on a Stormtrooper would really come into play.
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Not really. You are moving in a set direction at a set speed when going all out (since that is all you can do, you get to do no maneuvering), so as you are going straight it should IMO Be EASIER to target you. not harder. |
Not strictly true. Per the RAW, once the character selects a Move Speed (Cautious / Cruising / Full / All-Out), they may select a specific move distance between 50-100% of their full move speed (See Partial Moves, Page 102). A character with a Speed of 10, moving all out, may choose to move any distance between 20 and 40 meters in that round. Given that variable, it is reasonable to assume that said character may be varying their speed and running something other than a straight line to get from A to B. If that is the case, the character may, while moving still move in a fashion that makes themselves a more difficult target, without resorting to an actual dodge.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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I see your point, but since the RAW don't have mods for movement for 'making things harder' to hit you, other than for missiles, dodging imo is more important than speed.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I see your point, but since the RAW don't have mods for movement for 'making things harder' to hit you, other than for missiles, dodging imo is more important than speed. |
I agree. I'm just saying that there should be modifiers imposed that make it more difficult to hit a character who is running all-out than one who is just "moseying along." They don't have to be big modifiers, but it would be a better reflection of reality.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: |
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So what.. like
Space speed 1-4, +3to hit
space speed, 5-8, +6 to hit
space speed 9-12, +9 to hit
Space speed 13-16, +12 to hit..
keep going up adding 3 to hit for every 4 space is..
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Bren
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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While not totally realistic, the RAW is reasonably simple, doesn't require page after page filled with tables of special modifiers, simulates the first three movies reasonably well, and is fun to play.
Sometimes reality is over rated. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16406
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | So what.. like
Space speed 1-4, +3to hit
space speed, 5-8, +6 to hit
space speed 9-12, +9 to hit
Space speed 13-16, +12 to hit..
keep going up adding 3 to hit for every 4 space is.. |
I was thinking something more along the lines of a simple modifier applied depending on which speed mode you are using. It wouldn't be overly complicated, but would be sufficient to at least address the point I've been making.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
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So cautious +0
Cruise +4
Full +8
All out +12
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | So cautious +0
Cruise +4
Full +8
All out +12 |
Well, considering Cautious and Cruise are both basically walking speed, and that a moving target being harder to hit based on the speed they are moving, I would say more like +5 at Full and +10 at All-Out (or +1D / +2D to reflect the random nature of the situation).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Full dodge running |
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As Garhkal pointed out this is the Official Rules thread so the official answers are:
| garhkal wrote: | | leao wrote: | How it works for moving fast with a vehicle and full dodge?
It is strange that I can’t make any other action the round of full dodge, but I have to drive.
The situation is:
- I’m moving at double speed in a normal terrain
- I want to make a full dodge
- I have to roll twice (one for moving and one for dodge) or just one?
- I have to roll with MAP -1D (move and dodge) or without?
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2 rolls. 1 to maneuver through the terrain, 1 to make a combat dodge. You cannot combine movement with full dodging. So as a pc dodging in blaster base combat, at most i have allowed half a move (in one direction or the other) to be considered as part of your Full dodge. Same goes for ship/vehicle combat.
| Quote: |
If I’m moving at doublespeed with a YT I can’t just “get nowhere”. I can’t stop, I still have to move because the ship is going… |
Well, since you are spinning/ducking/duking/sliding/corkscrewing etc you are still "Moving" you are just not going anywhere... If you DO want to actually gain movement (say from a fixed weapons emplacement so you increase the range from it) you can only do a combat dodge, not a full one.
| Quote: | I don’t get it. All time I make a full dodge I have to loose one level of speed?
And it don’t answer my question. Do you mean that when I do a full dodge I can’t roll for drive? It means as a 0 on drive test… |
Yup. Making a full dodge (whether as a pc or for a ships pilit) is ALL THEY Are doing. Ergo your speed drops (as you are not keeping up with the throttle being pushed foward), and you don't really go anywhere.
Have you ever watched the movie Double team with Jean claude van dam and Dennis Rodman? Watch the scene where when JCVD was being shot at he spun on the floor / flipped?? THAT was him doing a full dodge.
| Quote: | Do you become more difficult to hit when moving at different speeds as well?
|
By the RAW, no. Other than for missile fire.
| Quote: | I don't think moving All-Out should offer the same penalties to hit as a Full Dodge, but a moving object should technically be harder to hit simply by dint of a moving target being a more difficult target. Of course, something like this would be where the MFTAS system on a Stormtrooper would really come into play.
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Not really. You are moving in a set direction at a set speed when going all out (since that is all you can do, you get to do no maneuvering), so as you are going straight it should IMO Be EASIER to target you. not harder.
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Anything else is a house rull and should be moved somewhere else to stop confusing people who are looking up how to do things by the book.
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