The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

The Wealth of a Character?
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Characters, Droids, and Species -> The Wealth of a Character? Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another version I read of was that to remove the helmet required that the trooper toggle a tongue switch before removing the helmet (which included an inflating ring around the neck as part of the atmosphere system). Basically, without the switch, you had to really work to pull the helmet off, and if you did, the safety overrides would fry the circuitry, taking out the MFTAS, comlink and whatever else, and rendering the helmet pretty much useless ("I can't see a thing in this helmet!")
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tetsuoh
Captain
Captain


Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And for mercenary smugglers just trying to make their way in the universe, my strategy is, keep 'em poor. Hit it big on the last run? Great. Enjoy it while you can.


But how big is big? That is my question whill, there are no guidelines for awarding a payout other than doing a tramp freighter run.

Are there rules on awarding bounties or there being a bounty reward from an adventure setting?

That is part of my problem - there not being ANY guidelines that I know on how much a mission should/could be worth - let alone how much they could if allowed - make off the npcs.

And sure this isn't dnd - I'm not an idiot - but when you give your pc's credit rewards - how much do you give them? why do you give them that much? why is that the appropriate number for your game?

that is what I'm looking for, not a he said she said - cuss I said so, and I'm right mentality.

keep them poor? and when your character succeeds, you fault them for their success? sure make them work to achieve it again - but what is the point of forcing them to fail until its the right time to succeed - by your rules? In my games if my character succeeds over what I gave them - then they succeed over what I gave them - I TRY to kill them all the time, especially when they are idiotic, or even just because they ran across the bigger fish, run or die. But if they succeed over what I give them, by what right do I have to then look at them and go, no sorry - that crate that read explosives that was SOO heavy that required you to grab the hoversled? its full of rocks, oh the other crates? rocks to. BUT HEY you lived through all those droids! Oh but the ones the tech grabbed to try and rebuild one? useless, sorry.

If your players try to do something, and there is no reason for them not to succeed at it - especially when it has an ordeal to begin with, what is the point of denying their skill?

Deny them the opportunity? One is an expect at picking up intel and rumors - its what his character is built for, its his place in the party. Can't let them find a new lead on a bounty, after all hes only a bounty hunter.
Can't let him find a cargo run after all hes only a smuggler.
???

If your character is a shock boxer who has risen through the ranks by CP, smarts, and the luck of the dice - why the hell is he being denied his prize fight?

I asked for whether or not anyone had input on how much something should be worth or books that gave examples of rewards. Instead I get belittled and told - this isn't ****ing DnD, then a list of slap em across the face with your broke get used to it comments, and one comment on make em rich but deny em the opportunity to even use it.

Question mister millionaire giver - your group gives a cut to the one and only Durga the Hutt - a huge one for access to his laundering it - or better yet - the Infobroker and black market dealer in your group - spends a force point and rolls over heroic to do it himself from a comm array that he secured himself that has heroic encryption. You still gonna look at em and say - sorry you can only have like .2% of at 112 Million?

Say they took it and realizing they didnt need anywhere near it runs to Hutt Cartel and works their way to getting an audiaence, this buys you more time and perhaps lets a portion be stolen. But then they look at this hutt and say - we dont need the grief - give us 2 million for the info - 2 million clean. would you deny them? They worked to get the info in the first place, and you gave them hell to pay for suceeding - bounty hunters, and crime lords all over em. Then they go through the right channels and hell even buy gifts and make buddy buddy with the hutt in charge here.


garhkal wrote:

Alternately, each suit has a warning buzzer back to base with the ID of the trooper, so if they do get killed, or the armor is stripped, the base KNOWS who it was and where.


Luke and Han in trooper armor in the first movie ever made. But they do ask for check ins regularly - it is a military.


Guys my issue is the fact that I asked for input on sources of examples for how much something would be worth or allowed as a reward, not commentary on how to screw my players over because they shouldn't be allowed to succeed. That's my choice, and their determination that makes that happen. I just wanted examples of what some of the books said was appropriate that I don't have.

I'm not angry, but don't type things out like I'm a piss poor GM for letting my players succeed, cuss thats insulting.


Last edited by tetsuoh on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that, case, it depends what kind of campaign you want to run. I know there is one scenario in the Tapani Sector Instant Adventures in which one of the characters inherits a lordship in the Tapani Sector, so if you want your characters to hob-nob with the rich and lordly of the SWU, that is an option. Of course, I understand that getting richer doesn't make all your problems go away; it just makes them bigger...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, in the Force Unleashed Campaign Guide (D20), there is a chapter on Organizations. Naturally, it doesn't port straight over, but it could give you some ideas on how, if your characters are working for an organization, as they go up in rank or increase in influence, their organization can assist them, either financially, or through influence or access...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
griff
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once created an entertainer template that was not just wealthy but extremely famous. The famous persona being a disguise but had access to millions of credits but influential within many sectors of the core. I always wondered why there was never any rich characters. If someone wanted to play a rich character like Lando, why not let them.
_________________
"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Theodrim
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetsuoh wrote:
And sure this isn't dnd - I'm not an idiot - but when you give your pc's credit rewards - how much do you give them? why do you give them that much? why is that the appropriate number for your game?


You seem to have missed our point(s).

Wealth isn't directly correlative to player strength in SWD6, and is extremely dependent upon the type of story you're running and the themes you want to promote. There's no hard-set rule for that, since GM's and players have different tastes, priorities, and desires. You just have to feel it out as you go.

That may sound like the biggest pile of non-advice you've heard, but it's also the truth...and in the long run, the best advice, since we're not your players nor you. We can't (and shouldn't) tell you how to run your games.

Quote:
Question mister millionaire giver - your group gives a cut to the one and only Durga the Hutt - a huge one for access to his laundering it - or better yet - the Infobroker and black market dealer in your group - spends a force point and rolls over heroic to do it himself from a comm array that he secured himself that has heroic encryption. You still gonna look at em and say - sorry you can only have like .2% of at 112 Million?


Actually, they made a deal with Black Sun to launder it, especially since they already had contacts and an in with the organization, having worked with them in the past...Dramatic Irony+ being the PC's are former CorSec officers and informants. Black Sun's cut is 40%, and the cartel guaranteed the remaining 67-odd million would come back clean.

And it is...the catch is, the boss with which they're working plans to use Black Sun's cut to fund a private war with the Zygerrians, gaining market share in galactic slave trade. It's in Black Sun's self-interest to stay on the level with the PC's, at this juncture.

And, like I said, that 67 million credits is their seed money for running their own spec ops group, supporting cells, and subordinate mission groups and cells. They're multi-millionaires, but they're still going to be on a shoestring budget for their commitment(s) to the Rebellion and very careful how they spend that money to avoid drawing attention.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Another version I read of was that to remove the helmet required that the trooper toggle a tongue switch before removing the helmet (which included an inflating ring around the neck as part of the atmosphere system). Basically, without the switch, you had to really work to pull the helmet off, and if you did, the safety overrides would fry the circuitry, taking out the MFTAS, comlink and whatever else, and rendering the helmet pretty much useless ("I can't see a thing in this helmet!")


I've done that before, but with all specialized troops, not just generic stormies.


Quote:
Are there rules on awarding bounties or there being a bounty reward from an adventure setting?


Page 39-40 in GG 10 (the bounty hunter one) says
Galactic bounties, are usually 50K or more
Regional are 20-70k on average
Sector are 3-50k
System are 1-25k
And planetary are 150 credits up to 15k

Quote:
That is part of my problem - there not being ANY guidelines that I know on how much a mission should/could be worth - let alone how much they could if allowed - make off the npcs.


I've never really used a guideline for what (If anything) a mission say for the rebellion is worth. Trade runs and blackmarket deals is usually where PCs get money from.

Quote:
I asked for whether or not anyone had input on how much something should be worth or books that gave examples of rewards. Instead I get belittled and told - this isn't ****ing DnD, then a list of slap em across the face with your broke get used to it comments, and one comment on make em rich but deny em the opportunity to even use it.


That's cause there are no concrete examples listed for what a 'reasonable reward/mission pay is. [/quote]
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jedi Skyler
Moff
Moff


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for field stripping fallen foes, including stormtroopers: there most certainly is a precedent for having enough time to do so, and that would be on the Death Star in ANH. Luke and Han had plenty of time to resupply after rescuing Princess Leia. In fact, they had plenty of time after summoning that pair of troopers aboard the Millennium Falcon to stun and strip them, and don their armor. There were no issues with having to defeat security measures to strip the armor off the troopers, nor to utilize the comlink in the helmets. We do, however, see Security checking to see why those troopers weren't at their posts. And, fortunately for Luke and Han, they were able to successfully Con security by acting as though there was a technical fault - which, by the way, was only possible because they correctly guessed that the security office questioning them was that transpraisteel window overlooking the hangar bay - and thus avoided detection for that much longer.

garkhal is absolutely correct that, when your party is firing kill shots, rather than stun bolts, you should NEVER be having full, undamaged suits of armor on fallen foes. By that, I mean that wherever the trooper was hit, and the armor didn't soak the damage, that piece of armor is damaged and would not offer more protection. You'd have to combine pieces from the suits that are available, and will come up with a lesser number of viable suits to use.

As for the black market (or even legitimate shops) and gear netted from battle: it is possible, with the right skills, to strip armor and gear down to components to sell. That way, items are not necessarily easily recognized for the equipment of which they were originally a part. That, or then you have components and systems that you can add to the armor your characters already have; that addresses the issue of 'giving your players too much wealth' versus having them griping about not having enough credits to get the gear they want, but can't find. It also gives the players motivation to put skill dice in skills that are not combat-oriented, which is a huge tendency with most players. It's also one of the reasons I started playing slicers some of the time; sure, my characters have dice in combat skills, but as I started creating more tech-savvy characters, I opened up a whole new world. It became less necessary for our parties to find someone with access, because we now had a character on hand who was experienced with computer systems, security and the like.

And that's the kind of thinking that gets players looking at alternative methods of making credits. Slicers can do programming work for hire (which, in addition to earning credits, can provide GMs with another plot hook or two). Gunslingers can do bodyguard or other security work. The possibilities are only limited by the imagination of the GM and the players, and each opportunity for making creds means opportunities for the GM to bring in various consequences; perhaps a job went wrong. A line of code was incorrect, or perhaps the program had unintended results, and now the employer is looking for a little payback...or perhaps even giving the slicer a bonus because those unintended results meant a much more significant payout for the employer. Either way, encouraging the PCs to actively seek out ways to earn credits can quell any griping about not having enough. It can get them focused on more ways to play their characters, and it can give them opportunities to develop skills that will round their characters out.

That's something I'd strongly suggest to GMs who are encouraging this from their players, and I also offer it up as a method for trying to help gauge what is an appropriate reward, and what is an appropriate method of delivering said rewards. I think it's more conducive to fostering good role playing in the players, and that is something that should ALWAYS be rewarded, be it through credits, CPs, or allowing your players to achieve something without a roll because they put an obvious effort into BEING their character.

The unfortunate thing is that this is not a precise table from which to see what rewards should be offered. Hopefully you're getting ideas that will make it easier to come up with appropriate rewards for your players...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:
It also gives the players motivation to put skill dice in skills that are not combat-oriented, which is a huge tendency with most players. It's also one of the reasons I started playing slicers some of the time; sure, my characters have dice in combat skills, but as I started creating more tech-savvy characters, I opened up a whole new world. It became less necessary for our parties to find someone with access, because we now had a character on hand who was experienced with computer systems, security and the like.

And that's the kind of thinking that gets players looking at alternative methods of making credits. Slicers can do programming work for hire (which, in addition to earning credits, can provide GMs with another plot hook or two). Gunslingers can do bodyguard or other security work. The possibilities are only limited by the imagination of the GM and the players, and each opportunity for making creds means opportunities for the GM to bring in various consequences; perhaps a job went wrong. A line of code was incorrect, or perhaps the program had unintended results, and now the employer is looking for a little payback...or perhaps even giving the slicer a bonus because those unintended results meant a much more significant payout for the employer. Either way, encouraging the PCs to actively seek out ways to earn credits can quell any griping about not having enough. It can get them focused on more ways to play their characters, and it can give them opportunities to develop skills that will round their characters out.

That's something I'd strongly suggest to GMs who are encouraging this from their players, and I also offer it up as a method for trying to help gauge what is an appropriate reward, and what is an appropriate method of delivering said rewards. I think it's more conducive to fostering good role playing in the players, and that is something that should ALWAYS be rewarded, be it through credits, CPs, or allowing your players to achieve something without a roll because they put an obvious effort into BEING their character.


Often people overlook the non combat skills, as not money makers. I have had fun being a person who can be hired on for any # of skills.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Theodrim
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Often people overlook the non combat skills, as not money makers. I have had fun being a person who can be hired on for any # of skills.


Part of the problem there is, realistically, the only skills in which PC's need more than 4-5D are the ones that are generally used in opposing rolls. A 5D dice code will consistently get a player rolling difficult territory which is sufficient for the overwhelming majority of skill checks, and with CP's or an FP spent will get a player rolling well into heroic territory. Nobody needs 8D in alien species, for example, and look at languages: taking into account specialization and fluency rules, all one ever needs in the base skill is 4D+2, plus two CP's spent in relevant specializations to achieve fluency.

The majority of opposing rolls are combat skills, so it's natural that's where the CP's go. Disregarding RoE's overage rules puts an effective soft cap on that, but that doesn't affect players' tendency to focus CP expenditure on where it's actually needed.

Diversifying -- in this case getting multiple non-combat skills to that 5D threshold -- and getting players to diversify is where it's at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps then, dm's need to start putting in more instances where those other skills can shine!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jedi Skyler
Moff
Moff


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, garkhal!

And, as an example of how 8D in Alien Species would actually be helpful...say you are looking for someone you either know, or highly suspect, is disguised as member of a different race...say, a Twi'lek. Someone who had that level of skill in Alien Species would be way more likely to catch the fact that there's one Twi'lek in this whole crowd of them, who's NOT moving their lekku during conversation, a sure sign to others of that species that something wasn't right.

While 8D in that particular skill is a bit excessive for anyone other than a scholar of some kind, it illustrates the point that a creative GM will find a way to reward a player for creating a more well-rounded character, by having them actually USING said skills.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16180
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A technique I use is to allow a character with high Knowledge skills add bonuses to Perception or other pertinent skills based on how well they roll their Knowledge skill.

For example, say a character with 8D in Alien Species is in a sabacc game with a Twi'lek. He racks his brain thinking of anything about Twi'leks that might help him read his opponent. In game terms, he rolls Alien Species against the appropriate Difficulty for Twi'leks, then receive a +1 pip bonus to Gambling for every 3 points by which he beat the Difficulty (I haven't settled on an exact ratio, since 1 for 3 actually seems to be a little generous). On the other hand, if he fails the roll, he receives a penalty to his Gambling roll, since he is basing his assumption on flawed or false information.

But the end result is that characters who normally bypass Knowledge skills or just use them for roleplaying scenes suddenly have more incentive to look at their Knowledge skills for appropriate bonuses if they really want their Perception rolls to succeed.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10301
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Perhaps then, dm's need to start putting in more instances where those other skills can shine!

Exactly. It is up to the GM to incorporate a balance of skills into the game.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14036
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Skyler wrote:
Well said, garkhal!

And, as an example of how 8D in Alien Species would actually be helpful...say you are looking for someone you either know, or highly suspect, is disguised as member of a different race...say, a Twi'lek. Someone who had that level of skill in Alien Species would be way more likely to catch the fact that there's one Twi'lek in this whole crowd of them, who's NOT moving their lekku during conversation, a sure sign to others of that species that something wasn't right.

While 8D in that particular skill is a bit excessive for anyone other than a scholar of some kind, it illustrates the point that a creative GM will find a way to reward a player for creating a more well-rounded character, by having them actually USING said skills.


Or like i did in one of my modules, the party was part of a contest of sorts, where one of the 'competition' aspects was to guess all 6 aliens a pic of was shown. Using their Alien species skill, each 4 points they rolled, they got one of the aliens. Now i COULD have just printed out pictures, but not everyone (especially at conventions) has even read all the alien books, so the Die roll was more appropriate.

Quote:
Exactly. It is up to the GM to incorporate a balance of skills into the game.


That is one reason, i like to scan skill lists of other players, to see what skills are often not taken, or if taken are just low, so as to include something FOR that skill in a module i write. So they learn the value of diversity!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Characters, Droids, and Species All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0