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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Personally i think any use of the force to directly injure should warrant at least a Dark side point. Perhaps, stunning should be ok, wounding or worse gets you the point. |
It's the old unsolveable argument on use of the force for attack. We clearly see Ben and Luke in the OT maim or kill with lightsabers, presumably using LS Combat and hence the force. So why is it OK to hack off a guy's arm in a bar using a force enhanced lightsaber, but hitting him with a rock which does less damage is an auto DSP?
Personally, I'm a bit in the middle here. I'm ok with allowing some limited use of TK to do damage in line with what we see in the prequels. In our house campaign we allow force push, which does stun only or limited damage.
What really concerns me more are the game balance issues.
1) Ensuring that the ability to use TK (or other force skills) does not eliminate a need for Jedi to learn other non-force skills like lightsaber, brawling, or blaster.
2) That TK doesn't become a method to damage or incapacitate the non-force sensitives without allowing them to dodge or otherwise avoid or resist attacks. |
Im starting to go with intent and situation here from now on. If the Jedi is using a 'balanced' amount of force (ie violence, not The Force) will be the determining factor, not what specific action the Jedi performs. The only exception will be using force powers drawing on the dark side (which generates a DSP on their own). IMO its less dark side-ish to use TK to bash a squadron of Storm Troopers off their feets with some large boxes (even if some might get wounded or incapacitated) than to jump into the fray and decapacitate them with your lightsaber. Better throw an attacker into a wall, knocking him out, than cutting him in half.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | 2) That TK doesn't become a method to damage or incapacitate the non-force sensitives without allowing them to dodge or otherwise avoid or resist attacks. |
Using cover is a great option for that. Since TK specifies that it can only be used against objects that the Jedi can see, all a non-FS has to do is get behind some sort of total cover. Jedi can't see you: can't TK you. Of course, it works best if the object providing cover is too big or too well secured to be TK'd.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | IMO its less dark side-ish to use TK to bash a squadron of Storm Troopers off their feets with some large boxes (even if some might get wounded or incapacitated) than to jump into the fray and decapacitate them with your lightsaber. Better throw an attacker into a wall, knocking him out, than cutting him in half. |
Yeah, but it is just so much cooler to have someone swinging a lightsaber than tossing empty crates around. The cool factor of lightsabers is a big part of why I prefer Star Wars to Traveller. Well that and having to use a weapon that sounds like it hurls a garden pest at opponenents just sucks.  |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | IMO its less dark side-ish to use TK to bash a squadron of Storm Troopers off their feets with some large boxes (even if some might get wounded or incapacitated) than to jump into the fray and decapacitate them with your lightsaber. Better throw an attacker into a wall, knocking him out, than cutting him in half. |
Yeah, but it is just so much cooler to have someone swinging a lightsaber than tossing empty crates around. The cool factor of lightsabers is a big part of why I prefer Star Wars to Traveller. Well that and having to use a weapon that sounds like it hurls a garden pest at opponenents just sucks. |
I didnt say you cant use it, or shouldnt, just that its weird that using a less violent option will give you a DSP.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Plus ben tried diffusing the situation before it got out of hand, and once the hand was taken, he stopped. Just like a mil security person does. Escalation of force, and all that.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Lightsaber Throw
Sense: Easy
Alter: Moderate
Prerequisite: Telekinesis, Sense Life
Effect: This power allows the Jedi throwing his lightsaber using the force to guide the weapon toward its target and back at his hand. Target number to hit is Moderate or the targets defence roll (Melee Parry or Dodge). The Jedi uses his Thrown Weapons skill to hit adding his Alter dice. Basic Alter difficulty is for 20 m range. Add one difficulty level for each additional 10 meters. If this power is used to attack another living being the user gains a DSP.
***
Please note that the DSP rule above is to keep with WEGs general ideas regarding using the force to attack. It does not mean that Im using it that strictly in my games.
Question: How to handle lightsaber damage with its meager 5D basic damage? If coupled with LSC this power will result in a -3D MAP to be meaningful. Will it ever be used in such a case? Should you make this power Alter only (as TK) to drop the number of actions?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Question: How to handle lightsaber damage with its meager 5D basic damage? If coupled with LSC this power will result in a -3D MAP to be meaningful. Will it ever be used in such a case? Should you make this power Alter only (as TK) to drop the number of actions? |
I wouldn't. It seems that a maneuver like this should be something only the elite of the elite can normally do. This ishould be an advanced lightsaber attack. It should be out of the realm of most PCs, except for maybe using a FP.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Lightsaber Throw
Sense: Easy
Alter: Moderate
Prerequisite: Telekinesis, Sense Life
Effect: This power allows the Jedi throwing his lightsaber using the force to guide the weapon toward its target and back at his hand. Target number to hit is Moderate or the targets defence roll (Melee Parry or Dodge).... |
Overall I like the power. I like the fact that it is based on throw rather than a melee skill. However, I don't think it should be easier to hit throwing a lightsaber than swinging one. Difficulty to hit in melee is difficult, difficulty to throw should also be at least difficult.
| Whill wrote: | | It seems that a maneuver like this should be something only the elite of the elite can normally do. This ishould be an advanced lightsaber attack. It should be out of the realm of most PCs, except for maybe using a FP. |
I agree that most Jedi (especially Padawans) should only be able to use this skill with a FP. Otherwise we would see it happen a lot more in the movies and cartoon. Besides they are Jedi, not Xena Warrior Princess. Though a Jedi (or a Sith) that looks and acts like Xena might be pretty cool. 8) |
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Lightsaber Throw
Sense: Easy
Alter: Moderate
Prerequisite: Telekinesis, Sense Life
Effect: This power allows the Jedi throwing his lightsaber using the force to guide the weapon toward its target and back at his hand. Target number to hit is Difficult or the targets defence roll (Melee Parry or Dodge). The Jedi uses his Thrown Weapons skill to hit adding his Alter dice. Basic Alter difficulty is for 20 m range. Add one difficulty level for each additional 10 meters. If this power is used to attack another living being the user gains a DSP.
***
Please note that the DSP rule above is to keep with WEGs general ideas regarding using the force to attack. It does not mean that Im using it that strictly in my games.
Question: How to handle lightsaber damage with its meager 5D basic damage? If coupled with LSC this power will result in a -3D MAP to be meaningful. Will it ever be used in such a case? Should you make this power Alter only (as TK) to drop the number of actions? |
Basic to-hit difficulty raised to Difficult.
Well, I dont design force powers that require a CP as we dont use CPs that way. Also, cant really see why a CP would make or break this power. Perhaps its better to raise Alter difficulty to Difficult, which will sort out the noobs.
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Bren
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Question: How to handle lightsaber damage with its meager 5D basic damage? If coupled with LSC this power will result in a -3D MAP to be meaningful. Will it ever be used in such a case? Should you make this power Alter only (as TK) to drop the number of actions? |
Maybe if LSC is up, use Alter to modify the throw skill chance to hit as you indicated and use control to modify damage?
We house rule most force powers to count as -1MAP despite how many skills are involved, so we would only count it as -2MAP.
One other possibility would be substitute control for sense. Control modifying damage and alter modifying chance to hit. Or if you use a house rule similar to ours, make Throw Lightsaber a Control, Sense, and Alter skill (with the house rule that is -1MAP total). Sense allows you to direct the lightsaber, alter adds to throw, and control adds to damage. Potentially you could cap the throw and damage adds to maximum of sense if you don't feel sense is contributing enough. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Lightsaber Throw
Control: Moderate
Alter: Moderate
Prerequisite: Telekinesis, Sense Life
Effect: This power allows the Jedi throwing his lightsaber using the force to guide the weapon toward its target and back at his hand. Target number to hit is Difficult or the targets defence roll (Melee Parry or Dodge). The Jedi uses his Thrown Weapons skill to hit adding his Alter dice. Basic Alter difficulty is for 20 m range. Add one difficulty level for each additional 10 meters. Can only be used on target within line of sight. Because the Jedi is not in contact with the lightsaber when it strikes the target the damage of the lightsaber is basic damage plus half the Control skill of the user. If this power is used to attack another living being the user gains a DSP.
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Please note that the DSP rule above is to keep with WEGs general ideas regarding using the force to attack. It does not mean that Im using it that strictly in my games.
Question: How to handle lightsaber damage with its meager 5D basic damage? If coupled with LSC this power will result in a -3D MAP to be meaningful. Will it ever be used in such a case? Should you make this power Alter only (as TK) to drop the number of actions? |
Made damage base damage plus half Control. Changed Sense skill to Control skill (its within LOS after all and I needed a connection to Controlf for increased damage).
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Rerun941
Commander
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 459
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you need a separate power for this?
Just use throwing + alter (telekinesis) with a -1D MAP for two actions... Telekinesis both keeps the blade locked on and guides it to the target.
To return the blade, just make a Telekinesis roll... if you want it to return in the same round, add it as another MAP.
It does the base damage code of the saber.
I see no need to boost the damage, it does as much as a Heavy Blaster Pistol, and probably has a better chance to hit. You have to have a reasonable amount of Alter (5D), so a Padawan isn't going to be trying it.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Rerun941 wrote: | Why do you need a separate power for this?
Just use throwing + alter (telekinesis) with a -1D MAP for two actions... Telekinesis both keeps the blade locked on and guides it to the target.
To return the blade, just make a Telekinesis roll... if you want it to return in the same round, add it as another MAP.
It does the base damage code of the saber.
I see no need to boost the damage, it does as much as a Heavy Blaster Pistol, and probably has a better chance to hit. You have to have a reasonable amount of Alter (5D), so a Padawan isn't going to be trying it. |
I guess its a matter of choice. The same can be said for force jump etc. My main gripe is that TK is powerful as it is allready. Also, the TN for using TK would be rather high with modifiers for complex actions etc. This is a specialized power which is easier to use, but at the cost of sacrificing the extreme flexibility TK offers.
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Last edited by ZzaphodD on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bren
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Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| What Z said. |
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