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ZzaphodD
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: Several Force Skills in one roll |
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If going for the idea with one diceroll for each force-power activation, how would you handle powers requiring several skills?
Should one skill be the 'main skill', ie the one you use to activate the power, while the others just requisite powers?
For example: RAW LSC needs a Moderate Control test and a Easy Sense roll to activate. With this idea it would mean you rolled Control, but Sense would still have to be in there somewhere.. Should you roll the average of Control and Sense? Should you roll Control, but if Sense was too low get a penalty?
Any ideas?
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Henrik.Balslev
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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in my games you had to pass all the required skill rolls if you use a force power which requires multiple force skills, if you fail one of the rolls the power fails.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Henrik.Balslev wrote: | | in my games you had to pass all the required skill rolls if you use a force power which requires multiple force skills, if you fail one of the rolls the power fails. |
Ok. The idea is to cut down on the number of dicerolling when using the force. This is the first step, cutting down on force powers is the next.
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Henrik.Balslev
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Henrik.Balslev wrote: | | in my games you had to pass all the required skill rolls if you use a force power which requires multiple force skills, if you fail one of the rolls the power fails. |
Ok. The idea is to cut down on the number of dicerolling when using the force. This is the first step, cutting down on force powers is the next. |
oh - I guess I misunderstood then lol - how about a combined diceroll, adding all dice into one roll, to overcome a combined difficulty.
Another route could be to make an average of all the difficulties, and then roll against that with an average number of dice.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Come up with a simple mechanic for that and youre home... To much math to average first difficulties and then no of dice.
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Ankhanu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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In the single attribute Force system I wrote, I did it thusly:
.: Force Powers requiring more than one of the standard Force Skills (C/S/A) have their difficulties set as the highest of the Force Skills listed in their descriptions.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Henrik.Balslev wrote: | | how about a combined diceroll, adding all dice into one roll, to overcome a combined difficulty. |
That's the way I was going to do it, but then Ank inspired me to unlearn what I had learned and completely overhaul the Force system too. That was a year ago but I just recently re-watched the entire film saga and took notes of the ways that the Force is apparently used, because I wanted to start with what we see in the films and build from there. Still a long way to go.
As far as combining powers, I looked at Control and thought that you could combine all the health related ones into different uses of one ability. Accelerate Healing, Control Disease, Control Pain, Detoxify Poison, Remain Conscious, Remove Fatigue and Resist Stun were all ones I was considering consolidating into one power called Constitution (I like that word because it starts with Con- like the word Control). Or maybe those related powers could be two abilities.
Even I think those do all seem like things you might be able to do with the Force, there is really no direct evidence any of those were actually used by Sith or Jedi in the movies. That goes for the Control+Alter versions of doing those things to others (maybe Obi-Wan used Return to Consciousness on Luke in the Jundland Wastes).
What you do have In the movies you have a LOT of various types of Sensing going on (including Farseeing), and a LOT of variations of Telekenisis. Lightsabers deflecting blaster bolts/Force fightning (with perhaps Lightsaber Combat enhancing) went on a lot too. Throw in some Affect Mind, Absorb/Dissipate Energy, Speed/Jump/Surge and Projective Telepathy, and that's most of what the Jedi do. For the Sith add on top of those some Force Lightning and Force Choking.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Someone else here suggested a while back, roll the lower d pool at the higher diff. So if you had Control 4d+2, and sense 5d+1, you would roll control at 15 diff.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Several Force Skills in one roll |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | If going for the idea with one diceroll for each force-power activation, how would you handle powers requiring several skills?
Should one skill be the 'main skill', ie the one you use to activate the power, while the others just requisite powers?
For example: RAW LSC needs a Moderate Control test and a Easy Sense roll to activate. With this idea it would mean you rolled Control, but Sense would still have to be in there somewhere.. Should you roll the average of Control and Sense? Should you roll Control, but if Sense was too low get a penalty?
Any ideas? |
What I was going to try was:
Roll the lowest of the appreciable skills against the highest of the applicable difficulties. For example, rolling the lowests of Control or Sense vs. Moderate difficulty.
That way both skills retain their importance.
If a power uses two skills a character can spend an additional round to reduce the difficulty by 1 level. A Control/Sense/Alter power can be reduced by two levels by spending two additional rounds.
Basically the same thing I mentioned in the SFR (Simplified Force Rules) |
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Bren
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Several Force Skills in one roll |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
What I was going to try was:
Roll the lowest of the appreciable skills against the highest of the applicable difficulties. |
This works well for Jedi whose skills are fairly in balance, but it will give anomalous results if where the skills and difficulties are not balanced, e.g. LS Combat moderate control easy sense for a Jedi with 5D control and 3D sense is possibly better off rolling under the old system. But with that exception, if you want to cut down die rolls, this seems like a pretty good mechanic. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Several Force Skills in one roll |
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| Bren wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: |
What I was going to try was:
Roll the lowest of the appreciable skills against the highest of the applicable difficulties. |
This works well for Jedi whose skills are fairly in balance, but it will give anomalous results if where the skills and difficulties are not balanced, e.g. LS Combat moderate control easy sense for a Jedi with 5D control and 3D sense is possibly better off rolling under the old system. But with that exception, if you want to cut down die rolls, this seems like a pretty good mechanic. |
At first I was thinking of this idea, but abandoned it for the same reasons as you mention. On average it will raise the difficulty of activating powers requiring more than one power.
Its really hard to come up with a solution that is both easy to use and dont change the balance change too much.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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What about this.
Determine the 'main skill' for each force power. This will often be the skill with the highest difficulty I guess, but there will probably exceptions. For example Most of the time This skill is used when activating the force power. Other skills used in the RAW will be 'requisites' to learn the power. A minimum skill level will determine if you can learn a power.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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I considered something like that at one time. Basically, reorganize all powers into only being based on one of the three skills, so in other words have no multiple skill powers. So all powers become control, sense or alter. And you can still have apropriate prerequisits and have minimum skill values in whatever other skills are appropriate to have learn the power. This eliminates the need to make multiple rolls to activate one power while still requiring cetain skill values to have certain formally conbined skill powers.
But you'd really have to put a lot of work into deciding how you wanted to apply proximity and relationship modifers since some of the combined skills had one modifier to one skill and the other modifier to the other.
And if you really wanted to keep some more of the old system in the mechanical dynamics, you could even state the base time to activate the (previously combined skills) power is longer, but it may be rushed with penalties (basically having the equivalent of a MAP penalties if activated in one round but still without the need to roll dice multiple times).
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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How about this? Rather than using the three existing Force skills, or making each individual power its own skill (ala the Witches of Dathomir), turn the three basic skills into seven skills (i.e. one for each skill category), so that Control/Sense, Control/Alter, Sense/Alter and Control/Sense/Alter will each be its own skill. The higher level skills would require the basic three skills as prerequisites, but you would only have to make the one roll to use a Force power under that category.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Several Force Skills in one roll |
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| Bren wrote: |
This works well for Jedi whose skills are fairly in balance, but it will give anomalous results if where the skills and difficulties are not balanced, e.g. LS Combat moderate control easy sense for a Jedi with 5D control and 3D sense is possibly better off rolling under the old system. But with that exception, if you want to cut down die rolls, this seems like a pretty good mechanic. |
I don't see that as a drawback.I think some balance is desirable in the skills to begin with.
As far as being better off under the old system, I'd say not. If the character spends two turns to raise LS combat, he will get to roll 2D (Sense) against a Easy Difficulty(Moderate -1 level for extra time(). In the old system they would have to roll than AND a Moderate Controll roll too. So the power is easier to riase, as long as the Jedi takes thier time.
And once the power is up, since one roll means 1 MAP, someone with 2D in Sense actually ends up with :1D to Lightsaber with this power, as opposed to :0D in the old system. |
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