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TauntaunScout
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 Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Mandalorian SPOILERs |
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| Whill wrote: | | ...but have major issues with TRoS. |
Going through his wikipedia page or whatever, it seems like the only JJ Abrams things I've ever liked are Gone Fishin' and Regarding Henry. And then later on, like the first season-ish of LOST. But that show quickly ran off the rails.
It just seems like his personal rule of cool stopped developing in 6th grade, along with his science education. Yeah, The Last Jedi is totes def my favorite sequel. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | would the kiss be classified "reylo" romance? or was this something else? |
I'm not sure but I think that is what the shippers call it. That kiss added nothing to this story...
| TauntaunScout wrote: | I try not to worry about it anymore. I pretty much view the trilogies as 3 completely if unofficially different continuities now.
Rey looks like she's finally a "real" action hero and totally awesome. So here's to 30 years of radio silence from her till Disney decides to bring her back to "pass the torch"  |
During my second viewing, I had a horrifying thought. When Ben was healing Rey, he had his hand on her belly. What if his healing power induced the midi-chlorians to create life in Rey and a child was conceived? In 20 years Disney could decide to continue this story to yet another generation, and the main character is the next Chosen One. That is really the only way the reylo kiss would mean anything. That kiss may be more than Shmi Skywalker got!
By the gods, I pray they don't ever continue this story. Let the past die. Do not resurrect it like Canon resurrects Sith Lords.
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TauntaunScout
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: | | would the kiss be classified "reylo" romance? or was this something else? |
I'm not sure but I think that is what the shippers call it. That kiss added nothing to this story...
| TauntaunScout wrote: | I try not to worry about it anymore. I pretty much view the trilogies as 3 completely if unofficially different continuities now.
Rey looks like she's finally a "real" action hero and totally awesome. So here's to 30 years of radio silence from her till Disney decides to bring her back to "pass the torch" |
During my second viewing, I had a horrifying thought. When Ben was healing Rey, he had his hand on her belly. What if his healing power induced the midi-chlorians to create life in Rey and a child was conceived? In 20 years Disney could decide to continue this story to yet another generation, and the main character is the next Chosen One. That is really the only way the reylo kiss would mean anything. That kiss may be more than Shmi Skywalker got!
By the gods, I pray they don't ever continue this story. Let the past die. Do not resurrect it like Canon resurrects Sith Lords. |
It turns out, Rey's midichlorian child used time travel to build R2-D2 and The Millenium Falcon, during a futile attempt to go back in time and prevent the rise of Palpatine from ever happening. |
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | When Ben was healing Rey, he had his hand on her belly. What if his healing power induced the midi-chlorians to create life in Rey and a child was conceived? |
On second thought it wasn't healing - she was dead. It was ressurection. At the cost of his life force, cause that's how Force works in ST, conusmes life force.
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | this disjointed feeling that many of us are feeling is the perfect illustration of what I was afraid of when I heard that Disney didn't go with a preplanned, overarching narrative for the whole ST in favor of allowing each director creative control of their respective movies. Sure, the writers and directors may have collaborated at times and in certain places (or so I've heard), but chain letter writing can't compete with a story that has a consistent narrative that flows smoothly from beginning to middle to end. |
I think it is extremely likely that Disney originally wanted someone of caliber to handle the entire trilogy and couldn't find any takers. So what we got was 'Plan B' where each movie is made as a sequel to the one before with no overarching plan to maximize each director's creative freedom as much as possible, as a selling point to get directors on board. The outcome may have still been a financial success, but the "trilogy" and whole saga suffer for it. It seems clear that money was more important than anything else.
| Quote: | | my best friend...said almost exactly the same thing: "TRoS felt like J.J. Abrams wrote a sequel to a movie we hadn't actually seen." The thing of it is, he and all you guys are absolutely right. My friend even said that TRoS almost felt like a giant "eff-you" to Rian Johnson except for the idea that my friend couldn't (or maybe didn't want to) believe that Abrams would be that mean to Johnson. |
It isn't a personal F-you. Both of them were hired for single films (Abrams had two but they were one at a time with no foreknowledge he would do the third film when he did the first). They were granted almost complete freedom over their single films. (Johnson apparently only had a do-not-kill list of characters - Luke, Snoke, Phasma, and Ackbar were not on the list). Abrams said that when making TFA, Johnson had asked him to make several changes to conform to TLJ, and Abrams made most changes but denied a few because it felt wrong for TFA. (One thing I'm certain Johnson wanted changed that Abrams didn't was Luke waiting for Rey in his Jedi robes. Johnson's Luke had turned his back on the Jedi so it made no sense for him to be wearing the Jedi robes when Rey got there, and in TLJ he changed his clothes in his next scene.) That isn't a screw-you, as much as a screw the other films. Abrams was announced as the director of the third film during TLJ post and probably didn't even bother asking Johnson to change anything in TLJ because he had already told Johnson no on some TFA changes he had asked for. In TRoS, Abrams seems to not really care about much prior continuity, films or otherwise. Most everything in TRoS is for the sake of TRoS' financial success, not to spite anyone.
| Quote: | What really irks me and my friend is that alot of stuff that felt so disjointed could have been fixed by a little bit of foreshadowing:
1) Oh, Palpy in TRoS is being more than a little bit out of character than in in the OT and PT? Well, a few lines about how he came back wrong and the Sith resurrection damaged his soul and personality could have fixed that. Too bad that didn't get mentioned.
2) Kylo Ren/Ben Solo managed to get to make a hyperspace trip to Exegol in an Empire-era TIE Fighter, a ship that we've known since ANH cannot enter hyperspace because it's a "short-range fighter?" Show a short scene of Kylo Ren salvaging a hyperdrive from a totalled Lambda-class shuttle and inserting it into the TIE (which at least happened once in the Legends continuity so there's precedent for making a TIE hyperspace-capable). Or better yet, just show a Lambda-class shuttle instead of an old TIE Fighter besides Luke's (now Rey's) X-wing and just avoid the whole issue entirely. Seriously, did Abrams do this just so he could have a shot of two of the most iconic OT starfighters sitting next to each other? What could that accomplish?
3) So we have a scene where Poe is revealed to have been a spice smuggler instead of his established past as a New Republic pilot/agent just to have a few laugh lines? Why not add a line or two about how being a smuggler was part of a cover for a mission that went sideways and it took Poe some time to clear his name (or some other plausible reason for Poe to pose as a smuggler for a while)? |
So publishing canon isn't really as important as film canon? It may be different on paper, but in actuality continuity is handled no differently than it was under Lucas. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. At least Lucas was honest about it.
| Quote: | Then there are a few things that robbed the movie of drama:
1)Rey accidentally blows up the FO ship that Chewbacca (or so we think) is on? Oh not to worry, we find out he's alive in the very next scene, which means the audience knows that the drama of Rey having a legitimate reason to angst enough to fall to the dark side is gone.
2) Kylo Ren/Ben Solo gets redeemed in the second act of the movie instead of at the end? Talk about shooting your wad a bit too early. And it's because of a hallucination of Han Solo? Sure it's a great excuse to have Harrison Ford do a cameo, but it feels like a Deus Ex Machina just to give Kylo Ren a Heel Face Turn. It's unsatisfying, especially when it happens that early in the story. |
Well, Ben getting redeemed in Act 2 at least made it slightly different than RotJ.
| Sutehp wrote: | 3) Rey flees back to Atch-to to prevent herself from falling to the dark side, but at the cost of preventing Palpatine from launching his new offensive...but it takes all of two minutes for Luke to convince her to get to Exegol and continue the fight. (Well, that was easy and relatively painless, Luke had to be thinking once Rey had left. Good thing she only spent 2 minutes and not six years angsting like I did.)
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TRoS is a good film, at least in that it does entertain for the requisite 2 and a half hours it runs. But Abrams' lack of "Star Wars verisimilitude," as TauntaunScout so correctly puts it, inserted a number of flaws that made TRoS a merely good (or at least, not terrible) movie when it could have been a great one. |
| Urban Spaceman wrote: | | Largely agree with many of the views here. I have a feeling this one is something I might appreciate more on it's own merits (and it does have them) later on. |
TRoS has some internal issues but I agree that overall, it is an ok adventure movie on its own right, but that is only ignoring the entire rest of the saga. RotS and the ST as a whole, take more away from the rest of the saga than they add.
| Darklighter79 wrote: | | No wonder Rey took the name of Skywalker - so JJ would say: the prophecy was fulfilled as "Skywalker" has brought the balance. |
Well, if the prophecy ever named "Skywalker" that would matter.
| Quote: | In JJ's Star Trek Into the Darkness there's a scene in which Enterprise exits warp in the Moon's orbit. It is immediately disabled by a hostile ship and starts falling withing seconds into....Earth's atmosphere.
Let's not dig too deep  . |
Great. Until now I was blissfully ignorant to the distance between the Moon and Earth. Thanks for ruining Into Darkness for me!
I kid.
| Quote: | After EU I do not have the problem with FL, but the "Heal Another" and all this life sacrifice did not feel right.
JJ did not check "how the Force works". |
There were other aspects of the Force in TRoS that did not feel right, but I didn't have a problem with the healing. That seems very jedi.
| Urban Spaceman wrote: | I found the opening really choppy. I would love for them to have built the atmosphere a bit more before Kylo and Palpatine faced each other.
I've heard that there was a lot cut out, so maybe a lot was cut from here. |
I think Abrams just didn't want to make the longest Star Wars film so he cut stuff here and there that may have helped the movie. It is fairly fast-paced but yeah it is really choppy. TRoS is the second longest, right behind TLJ.
| Urban Spaceman wrote: | | Although I found the second viewing annoyed me more than the first! |
For films I enjoy a lot, I usually enjoy them most my second viewing. I didn't feel that with my second viewing of TRoS.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
I'm not sure but I think that is what the shippers call it. That kiss added nothing to this story... |
My daughter and I were thinking, "Just hug. Just hug. Just hug... dangit.
]
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| to me this was sort ofthe true ep 8, it was here we see rey train, much like luke did in esb, and with a story far mor fitting an alsmost direct ep7 back story without any hint of ep8. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | griff wrote: | | The hyperdrive skipping into planet's atmospheres I could have done without. |
Yeah, the atmo skipping was kind of a weird shark jump that I didn't need. In TFA it was a big deal that they were coming out of lightspeed in atmo. Now, you just go in and out as you want. But if that's the biggest critique |
"Lightspeed Skipping" wasn't just coming out in atmo. The ship came out of lightspeed flying through constructs. But I can't say that was my biggest critique.
I felt the necklace translocating through the 'Reylo Force bond' from Rey to Ren was a shark jump. Then the ligthsaber -bamf- from Rey to Ren was the megalodon jump. Then Palpatine's 'Ultra Force Lightning Fleet Ionization' power was Fonzy jumping over Godzilla.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | | to me this was sort ofthe true ep 8, it was here we see rey train, much like luke did in esb, and with a story far mor fitting an alsmost direct ep7 back story without any hint of ep8. |
Luke did a lot more than just swing a staff/lightsaber around.
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Treefrog
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | cheshire wrote: | | griff wrote: | | The hyperdrive skipping into planet's atmospheres I could have done without. |
Yeah, the atmo skipping was kind of a weird shark jump that I didn't need. In TFA it was a big deal that they were coming out of lightspeed in atmo. Now, you just go in and out as you want. But if that's the biggest critique |
"Lightspeed Skipping" wasn't just coming out in atmo. The ship came out of lightspeed flying through constructs. But I can't say that was my biggest critique.
I felt the necklace translocating through the 'Reylo Force bond' from Rey to Ren was a shark jump. Then the ligthsaber -bamf- from Rey to Ren was the megalodon jump. Then Palpatine's 'Ultra Force Lightning Fleet Ionization' power was Fonzy jumping over Godzilla. |
Whill, that last thing you mentioned was just hilarious..... 
I've seen TROS twice now. For the ST, it was the best film of the ST, just as RotS was the best of the PT. IMHO, the only way TROS would be a success is if it made attempts at fixing the problems of TLJ, and I feel it has. |
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | There were other aspects of the Force in TRoS that did not feel right, but I didn't have a problem with the healing. That seems very jedi. |
I wonder how "heal self/ accelerated healing" will now be explained? "Wounded" goes up to stunned/full, but drops to "wounded" due to the mental damage?
It's not psionics - it's does not come from the inside. It wasn't desing that way by GL.
| Whill wrote: | | Well, if the prophecy ever named "Skywalker" that would matter. |
Possibly. What matters is that GL mentioned in RotS commentary:
"Anakin is the Chosen One and that the prophecy is true, although it had been misinterpreted by the entire Jedi Order".
Attempt to recton the legend with new 3 films, as we can see, did not work for the audience.
More info should be in the novelization and dvd.
Maybe the whole "I died before" will be explained (ep. VI)?
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that we're seeing a new power. I think this was more than accelerating someone's healing. If you're giving part of your own life energy to instantly heal another, then it's worth going to the drawing board and inventing something new, and accelerate healing is a prerequisite for that power. But think it might be better to flesh that out a little later when everyone has seen the movie and we can discuss mechanics in a more open forum when the spoiler ban has expired.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Prhas it was how they described the Transfer force power.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:03 am Post subject: |
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It seems to be a different / expanded version after all.
I do not know how much canon is "Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary" but there's an another application of a Force Healing from Ep. IX (quote from Wookiepedia):
| Quote: | | An alternate usage of Force healing was described in the sacred Jedi texts, specifically the Chronicles of Brus-bu. The method in question detailed the ability to heal a damaged kyber crystal through the use of Force healing. Rey used the technique to heal the crystal of Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber, which had been cracked during the Battle of Crait in 34 ABY. |
and normal usage
| Quote: | Regular healing
The user of Force healing would place their hand over the wound and pour their own life energy into it, healing the target, although at the expenditure of the user's own vitality. The ability was also capable of curing the user's target of poisoning. In the rare case of a dyad in the Force, the user was able transfer enough of their own Force energy to bring their target—the other half of their bond—back to life, though at the cost of their own.
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I still wonder how it would work as a Heal Self in this configuration.
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TauntaunScout
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| Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| The more time that passes since I saw The Rise of Skywalker, the less I like it. I won't be seeing it again or buying a hardcopy. I think a solid 50% of my positive feelings towards it was just me trying not to be a stereotyped angry fan. |
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