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The Clone Wars, a little help?
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:47 am    Post subject: The Clone Wars, a little help? Reply with quote

Hey, question...

The Clone Wars involves Separatists wishing to leave the Republic. It seems that Republic member worlds couldn't just simply up and leave the Republic without a fight because otherwise there would be no war. So it seems to me that the Republic is fighting the Separatists to make them stay in the Republic, and the Separatists are fighting back to leave.

So my question is about the supposedly neutral systems in the war. Aren't the neutral systems also technically separatists? They are leaving the Republic, but the difference is that they are just not joining the CIS, right? How are these supposedly neutral systems not also enemies of the Republic? Aren't these neutral systems also declaring they are independent from the Republic?

The only thing I can think of is, after the Clone Wars start the Republic's main problem it has to deal with is the CIS. So it is only this emergency atmosphere that allows systems to declare neutrality without that being contested by the Republic just because they are fighting the CIS, and without the Clone Wars going on the Republic would not just allow systems to declare independence. Is that right?

Or is the fighting in the Clone Wars over something else beside leaving the Republic? Thoughts?
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Dustflier
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of the conflict is that it had a lot more to do with trade/commerce/finance than simply succession.

Systems could very well be supplying the Separatists (via the Trade Federation, TechnoUnion, InterGalactic Banking Clan, Corporate Alliance, et cetera) and therefore financing the CIS war effort without ever officially pledging allegiance to one side or the other.

Meanwhile, the Republic military is brand new and already stretched thin. Where the Grand Army of the Republic is not, planets/systems/sectors are generally autonomous. Yes, they have agreed to the laws of the Republic. And yes, they could theoretically be brought to justice by sector rangers or something. But in reality, there's a war on - not only does everyone understand that a neutral position is sometimes beneficial, but who's going to do something about it?

Of course, the answer here is "the Jedi," which is why it "neutral planets" come up all the time in the Clone Wars animated series.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustflier wrote:
My understanding of the conflict is that it had a lot more to do with trade/commerce/finance than simply succession...

Of course, the answer here is "the Jedi," which is why it "neutral planets" come up all the time in the Clone Wars animated series.

Thanks for your reply, Dustflier, but I don't think I understand what you mean by the last sentence. How are "the Jedi" the reason why "neutral planets" come up all the time in TCW series?
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Dustflier
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because in the show, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Yoda, Mace Windu, and the rest of the Jedi have multiple opportunities to "negotiate" with neutral planets as plot points. It usually devolves to warfare.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: The Clone Wars, a little help? Reply with quote

Dustflier I see what you mean. That's the out-of-universe reason. And thanks for your in-universe answers above.


The next thing I request help for is...

Can anyone think of a good name for a Mandalorian civil war or clan war that is not already used in canon or the EU?
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The Clone Wars, a little help? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Dustflier I see what you mean. That's the out-of-universe reason. And thanks for your in-universe answers above.


The next thing I request help for is...

Can anyone think of a good name for a Mandalorian civil war or clan war that is not already used in canon or the EU?


There are names not used in canon? Wink

If it's a historical conflict, how about "The War of Mandalore the Usurper"? It heavily implies that the "original" Mandalore won over the breakaway faction, but it's not a given.
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Dustflier
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naming a fictional war can be tricky, but you have almost endless possibilities.

You could name it after the primary planet it takes place on, a la the Vietnam War (which spread to Laos, Cambodia, et cetera).

You could name it after the person who instigated it, as MrNexx suggested (i.e. "The War of Mandalore the Usurper" or "Mereel's War."

You could name it after a year: "The Clan War of 885" (of course, it would be taking place 885 standard years after the re-foundation of the Republic, or whatever. This relies on a more concrete method of dating than the one in EU/canon.)

Or you could name it after something more unorthodox, such as the War of Jenkin's Ear.
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WillTasker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: The Clone Wars, a little help? Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Clone Wars involves Separatists wishing to leave the Republic. It seems that Republic member worlds couldn't just simply up and leave the Republic without a fight because otherwise there would be no war. So it seems to me that the Republic is fighting the Separatists to make them stay in the Republic, and the Separatists are fighting back to leave.

So my question is about the supposedly neutral systems in the war. Aren't the neutral systems also technically separatists? They are leaving the Republic, but the difference is that they are just not joining the CIS, right? How are these supposedly neutral systems not also enemies of the Republic? Aren't these neutral systems also declaring they are independent from the Republic?


Think of the American Civil War, where the North (Republic) was fighting the South (CIS). While the South wanted to leave for both economic and social reasons (which I will not list nor argue over here), the North also knew that if they seceded, it would be a blow to the country as a whole - socially, economically, etc.

As to there being "neutral systems" in Star Wars - well, what about the Corporate Sector? (Admittedly, low-hanging fruit for an example!) I'm sure not all planets within the Galactic Senate voted for war or anything close to it (An aside: Do we know if Chancellor Vallorum was ousted in TPM because of the tally of a vote or was he simply "discredited" enough to be forced to leave office?), and would imagine that those that remained neutral still had economic ties to planets/sectors/whatever that were on one side or another.

Neutrality doesn't denote being a Separatist because a group/nation/whatever can be neutral in one thing but not in others. Switzerland is known for being historically neutral but is also became part of the United Nations in 2002.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about "neutral systems" during the Clone War as such, though Rex did mention in Star Wars Rebels that he "didn't think the fighting ever got to Lothal." That doesn't tell us anything about Lothal's political stance vis a vis the Clone War, of course. It just tells us that at least one planet didn't have battles happening on it while the War was going on. And sectors like the Corporate Sector are "client states" of the galactic government, whatever that means. My guess is they're semi-autonomous regions that self-administer their own planets but pay a tribute to the Empire or have some sort of tax/benefit arrangement with the New Republic in return for being able to self-administer.

As for Vallorum, IIRC, Palpatine manipulated a vote of no confidence in Valorum to have him thrown out of the Chancellorship, then got himself nominated as one of the few candidates to replace him. I'm not a political expert on anything but the American national scene, but I'm told that votes of no confidence are a thing in countries that have parlimentary systems, like Great Britain and Israel.

(Ok, I'm done talkin' out of my butt for the time being. Mr. Green )
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RedKnight
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

people forget how large the star wars galaxy is. i mean Padme represented 36 systems, 40,000 Independent colony worlds and 300 million barren systems.....thats A LOT of territory and thats just in one sector (the Chommell sector). so there were probably a LOT of neutral systems or ones that never saw the clone wars.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedKnight wrote:
people forget how large the star wars galaxy is. i mean Padme represented 36 systems, 40,000 Independent colony worlds and 300 million barren systems.....thats A LOT of territory and thats just in one sector (the Chommell sector). so there were probably a LOT of neutral systems or ones that never saw the clone wars.


In the Clone Wars, when Maul is attacking Mandalore, it's somewhat casually mentioned that Mandalore leads something like 2000 independent worlds.

And that's just the ones they know about. There might be planets orbiting a small white dwarf, practically skimming its surface, that have some new civilization that's just figuring out the hyperdrive... or something more exotic.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to "The Bounty Hunter Code: From the Files of Boba Fett", the Mandalorians tend to term their conflicts with one word descriptors. For example, they called the Mandalorian War "the Onslaught" and the conflict with the republic circa 800 BBY "The Rescission." I imagine this is to make them seem more romantic and more prone to poetic retelling.

So, in that spirit, here are some ideas for Mandalorian Conflict names:

"The Beheading", "The Puppet Clan", "The Third Tear", "The Dark Storm", "The End of the Pretenders"

Also, as far as neutral systems, it's worth noting that according to Legends sources, Corellia managed to legally succeed from the Republic due to a clause written into the constitution specifically for Corellia called Contemplanys Hermi.

My read is that there are many Neutral systems like Hutt Space and the outer rim which was neither never part of the Republic, or broke off but did not join the CIS. I think these would have been illegal, and technically seperatists, but were of far lower priority than the worlds that were actively helping the Seperatists. Indeed, I imagine once the Empire came into fruition, the Empire used their 'Neutrality' as justification for all sorts of oppression.
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