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Leon The Lion
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 Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but I think putting those in would require breaking up squads between floors. Don't know if that's really a problem in any way, but I don't like it aesthetically.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | Yes, but I think putting those in would require breaking up squads between floors. Don't know if that's really a problem in any way, but I don't like it aesthetically. |
I think I would need to see a visual to see what you mean.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
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Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I mean there will not be enough chairs available (no place to put them in) to seat all troopers from a single squad on the same level.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | I mean there will not be enough chairs available (no place to put them in) to seat all troopers from a single squad on the same level. |
What's the breakdown, as in how many seats on each level?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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atgxtg
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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At the risk of smartening up the Empire, a pair of deck sweepers on the belly turret would do wonders for this thing. As would some sort of missile launcher that could breech walls.
The the AT-AT could make it's own access point into an enemy base and use the deckswepers to hold the opening while deploying troops |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | At the risk of smartening up the Empire, a pair of deck sweepers on the belly turret would do wonders for this thing. As would some sort of missile launcher that could breech walls.
The the AT-AT could make it's own access point into an enemy base and use the deckswepers to hold the opening while deploying troops |
Range on the deck sweepers is only a few meters, and a dual heavy repeater using auto-fire rules is almost as good, with far better range. As for knocking holes in walls, the AT-AT's main cannon have a canon ability to charge up their shots to inflict greater damage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, miracously I managed to get some tiny amount of work done.
Here's the latest experimental result on the Mk.1 deckplan.
I'm still not entirely happy with using the stairs, but they turned out to actually save more space than the ladders. With that and moving the bikes downstairs, the already huge transport capacity went up again.
The AT-AT Mk.1 can now fit:
- four deck officers, two to a level;
- a biker scout lance - actually an overstrength one, 6 instead of 5;
- 94 stormtroopers - either 2,5 standard platoons or 2 overstrenght platoons (5 teams instead of 4).
There's also a small locker under the stairs.
It's also very possible, especially as we decided to leave the original crew in the head, that refitting to Mk.2 will not require reducing the transport capacity nowhere near as dramatically as by half. I think I may be able to fit in the tail turret and control station for the belly turret by only removing those two overstrength teams - 18 troopers - from the above.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | Ok, miracously I managed to get some tiny amount of work done.
Here's the latest experimental result on the Mk.1 deckplan. |
Great work, as always.
| Quote: | The AT-AT Mk.1 can now fit:
- four deck officers, two to a level;
- a biker scout lance - actually an overstrength one, 6 instead of 5; |
I would suggest a standard bike lance, with the 6th bike as a spare.
| Quote: | | - 94 stormtroopers - either 2,5 standard platoons or 2 overstrenght platoons (5 teams instead of 4). |
I would suggest two standard platoons plus a slice of the company support element (medics, techs, supplies and such).
| Quote: | There's also a small locker under the stairs.
It's also very possible, especially as we decided to leave the original crew in the head, that refitting to Mk.2 will not require reducing the transport capacity nowhere near as dramatically as by half. I think I may be able to fit in the tail turret and control station for the belly turret by only removing those two overstrength teams - 18 troopers - from the above. |
That works, too. Based on your original external art of the rear turret, I think it should be elevated somewhat, enough so that the turret well can be accessed with a full-height door.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:08 am Post subject: |
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garhkal, regarding your question of the reduced damage for the dual heavy repeaters...
When adapting stats for my auto-fire rules for Character-Scale weaponry, I presumed that a Light Repeater would fire the same intensity blaster bolt as a standard blaster rifle, just more of them, so while Damage would be reduced from 6D to 5D, the Light Repeater would have a full 2D of Auto-Fire to play with. The same would be true of the Medium Repeater (7D reduced to 6D/2D) and the Heavy Repeater (8D reduced to 7D/2D). However, when writing the stats, I failed to take into account the fact that a dual heavy repeater would receive a 1D bonus to damage for being a dual fire-linked weapon. Correcting the original stat now...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Great work, as always. |
Thank you.
| crmcneill wrote: | | I would suggest two standard platoons plus a slice of the company support element (medics, techs, supplies and such). |
Sure. Who you put in those seats is completely up to you. Any seats can also always be exchanged for more storage space or specialized equipment, like a command post or medical station.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Based on your original external art of the rear turret, I think it should be elevated somewhat, enough so that the turret well can be accessed with a full-height door. |
The original art is just a first try / placeholder, really, for proof-of-concept demonstration purposes. I'm sure it'll be modified when I finally get into it.
Here's another version of the Mk.1, my current preffered one - because it doesn't have stairs! 
It allowed me to enlarge the armory/storage compartment a bit while keeping the same passenger capacity.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/78011303@N05/13163781533/
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer
Last edited by Leon The Lion on Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | Who you put in those seats is completely up to you. Any seats can also always be exchanged for more storage space or specialized equipment, like a command post or medical station. |
The only real exchange rate of cargo per passenger listed in the RAW is from GG6, where basic, no-frills passenger transportation is 1 person = 1 metric ton of cargo space. That was what I used in the original posted stat. Likely, the lower level seats would be the first to be swapped out for cargo / medical station / command posts.
Conceivably, for an AT-AT on a long-term deployment, there is enough room to swap out seats for bunks. If the crew and passengers can handle hot-bunking...
Which brings up another issue. Would something the size of an AT-AT have a fresher?
| Quote: | Here's another version of the Mk.1, my current preffered one - because it doesn't have stairs!
It allowed me to enlarge the armory/storage compartment a bit while keeping the same passenger capacity. |
As you said, I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree on the stairs. I just don't see ladders being truly efficient at moving people between levels quickly, or allowing them to do so without using their hands. I don't mind having ladders as an optional / secondary method (in case the stairs are in use).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Which brings up another issue. Would something the size of an AT-AT have a fresher? |
Well, how long is it expected to be deployed? How long will the passengers stay on board? It may have a toilet. A full fresher, like with a shower included? Not likely. It's an IFV, not a tour bus.
How much life-support consummables does the AT-AT have anyway?
| crmcneill wrote: | | I just don't see ladders being truly efficient at moving people between levels quickly, or allowing them to do so without using their hands. |
I believe that you are severely overestimating the ability of a trooper in full gear to safely navigate the kind of steep, compact stairs you are likely to actually see on a military vehicle without using the handrails, especially a vehicle as prone to "turbulance" as a front line tank, and a walker to boot.
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Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | Well, how long is it expected to be deployed? How long will the passengers stay on board? It may have a toilet. A full fresher, like with a shower included? Not likely. It's an IFV, not a tour bus. |
I agree, but a simple toilet would not be amiss.
| Quote: | | How much life-support consummables does the AT-AT have anyway? |
I don't think vehicle stats in the SWU list consumables, so your guess is as good as mine. Since AT-ATs, at least, are comparable in size to space transports, allowing them to have a reactor would give them pretty good duration for power supply, so long as they can carry enough fuel...
| Quote: | | I believe that you are severely overestimating the ability of a trooper in full gear to safely navigate the kind of steep, compact stairs you are likely to actually see on a military vehicle without using the handrails, especially a vehicle as prone to "turbulance" as a front line tank, and a walker to boot. |
I see walkers having a lot more stability than a front-line tank, and turbulence would have just as much a detrimental effect on troopers climbing down a ladder. I'm looking at it from a perspective of, if most of the troopers are seated on the upper level, in a debarking surge, they will want to get them all down to the lower level as quickly as possible. Yes, stairs have the potential for tripping and falling, but they can be traversed much more quickly than a ladder, and since they are at an angle, you can actually overlap troopers and have multiple troops on the stairs at a time. On top of that, since you are putting storage lockers on the upper floor for heavy weapons, how will those weapons be carried to the lower level if the person carrying has to use their hands and feet to climb a ladder?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I agree, but a simple toilet would not be amiss. |
I'll see about putting one in.
| crmcneill wrote: | | I see walkers having a lot more stability than a front-line tank |
This thing has a max speed of 60kmh. It's not much slower than a modern M1 Abrams. But it's a quadruped walker. To reach that speed, it's gonna have to move pretty much like any quadruped animal would to go that fast. And that probably means a GALLOP. Like, full on run with airborne moments, where none of the legs touch the ground. More stability than a tank? I don't think so. At that speed, the experience for the crew and passengers will be pretty similiar to riding a horse. A bumpy ride. Not so bumpy as to make any other action other than hanging on for dear life impossible, no, but certainly bumpy enough to make it unadvisable to walk around without hanging on to something.
| crmcneill wrote: | | and turbulence would have just as much a detrimental effect on troopers climbing down a ladder. |
I'm not claiming otherwise. What I'm disputing is your claim that replacing ladders with stairs would automatically allow troopers to make the level transition without using their hands to hang on.
| crmcneill wrote: | | I'm looking at it from a perspective of, if most of the troopers are seated on the upper level, in a debarking surge, they will want to get them all down to the lower level as quickly as possible. Yes, stairs have the potential for tripping and falling, but they can be traversed much more quickly than a ladder, and since they are at an angle, you can actually overlap troopers and have multiple troops on the stairs at a time. |
A ladder can be "slid down" to traverse it pretty much just as quickly as a fireman's pole.
| crmcneill wrote: | | On top of that, since you are putting storage lockers on the upper floor for heavy weapons, how will those weapons be carried to the lower level if the person carrying has to use their hands and feet to climb a ladder? |
Very good point. I'll modify the deckplan to move the storage to the lower level.
I think by that point, if it wasn't already, it's pretty clear neither of us will convince the other.
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Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | I think by that point, if it wasn't already, it's pretty clear neither of us will convince the other. |
I was going to reply to a few of your points, but I think you are right. I will simply end by saying that I don't mind ladders in the slightest, but I do think stairs provide advantages ladders do not.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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