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Obi-Wan Kenobi [Spoilers Allowed]
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:13 am    Post subject: Obi-Wan Kenobi [Spoilers Allowed] Reply with quote

This is the new thread dedicated to the Obi-Wan Kenobi series on Disney+. Spoilers are allowed here at any time. Outside of this thread, please see the Rancor Pit Spoiler Policy. Thank you.



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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All i can say is OMG. I loved the episodes so far, and the Leia focus so far was a super surprise, I so love seeing Aldreaan
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
All i can say is OMG. I loved the episodes so far, and the Leia focus so far was a super surprise, I so love seeing Aldreaan


Yeah, I'd been trying to stay away from spoilers, so Leia's appearance was a surprise to me. I thought this was going to be a Luke-focused series.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ince the caption is spoilers allowed.

The grand Inquisitor, he is killed by the third sister (reva) in ep 2 in the hangar or what not.

Given that the time here was said to be 10 years after the fall of the republic theis places the series in 9 bby. Now Rebles which is canon has a timeline of 2-0 bby, and here we see the grand Inquistor die by his fall into the melting oven.

so this this makes me wonder if the grand inquistor on rebels in in fact an other person interely and this is why the leak that garnered some mixed fan reaction on that the actor of the Grand Inquistor had purposely NOT seen rebles.

so given that he dies in ep 2 here a full 9 years before his CANON death in rebles could this be the case, these are 2 different persons and even species
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mama, it's cute that you think the Grand Inquisitor is dead. I'll bet you 20 Imperial credits he's not. When Vader finds out why he was injured and needs recovery time, Vader himself get involved in the hunts...

Mamatried wrote:
All i can say is OMG. I loved the episodes so far, and the Leia focus so far was a super surprise, I so love seeing Aldreaan

I liked the first two episodes. Yes, Alderaan is a beautiful planet.

fogger1138 wrote:
Yeah, I'd been trying to stay away from spoilers, so Leia's appearance was a surprise to me. I thought this was going to be a Luke-focused series.

Yes, the plot gave a very good reason for Kenobi to leave Tatooine: Leia, the only thing that really would be just as important as watching over Luke. But Kenobi still first refused and told the Organas no by holo-transmission. It took Bail Organa sneaking to Tatooine to ask Kenobi in person, and Kenobi still had great reluctance to leave Luke. Plus Inquisitors had been on Tatooine looking for the former Jedi youngling. They did a lot to assuage fanboy anxieties about Kenobi leaving Luke.

I expect that since the Third Sister went rogue and lured Obi-Wan out of hiding without the Inquisitorius knowing about her research or plan, Leia's kidnapping was not made public, and Leia's kidnappers are now dead, the Third Sister will now also be a hunted criminal and the Empire won't learn of the Kenobi-Organa connection.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:

The grand Inquisitor, he is killed by the third sister (reva) in ep 2 in the hangar or what not.


Nah, it's just a flesh wound. Others were cut in half and returned.
By the way is this the same inquisitor that is present in Rebels and in new Jedi Survivor trailer?

One thing is strange: Kenobi knew who were the Inquisitors but had no knowledge who they serve to? I doubt Vader was keeping low profile for such a long time.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Mamatried wrote:

The grand Inquisitor, he is killed by the third sister (reva) in ep 2 in the hangar or what not.


Nah, it's just a flesh wound. Others were cut in half and returned.
By the way is this the same inquisitor that is present in Rebels and in new Jedi Survivor trailer?

One thing is strange: Kenobi knew who were the Inquisitors but had no knowledge who they serve to? I doubt Vader was keeping low profile for such a long time.



it can be that he knows of datth vader, I mean there is really notjing to indcate that he does not, considering what he knows of the inquisitors. however DID he know before "this" that Darth Vader was in fact Anakin?
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:

it can be that he knows of datth vader, I mean there is really notjing to indcate that he does not, considering what he knows of the inquisitors. however DID he know before "this" that Darth Vader was in fact Anakin?


He knew as in RotS there was a dialogue with Yoda:

Quote:
OBI-WAN: He is like my brother ... I cannot do it.

YODA: Twisted by the dark side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is . . . Consumed by Darth Vader.

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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darlighter79, I’m going to politely disagree that the dialogue with Yoda shows that Obi-Wan knew that Anakin is Vader. Yoda told Obi-Wan that Anakin turned to the Darkside. Obi-Wan left Anakin for death. Darth Vader shows up, Ben could’ve thought that Vader was just another Inquisitor. I believe Ben knew that Vader is a Force User but that’s about it. I could see that Ben might’ve guess Vader’s identity. But there is a difference between guessing and realizing the horrible truth.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small reminder scene.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I suppose it is possible that Obi-Wan may have believed that the moniker "Darth Vader" may have been recycled to another Imperial agent after Anakin's supposed death, thus allowing for him to have not learned Anakin had survived and to believe it was a different "Darth Vader" who had lead the Inquisitors. But that would be sloppy narratively, and in this case I do not think this is what they are going for. Plus, 'multiple Vaders' that would betray the MO this franchise has demonstrated for the Vader reverence. I actually agree with Darklighter here.

When Lucas made RotS, he did not foresee this inter-trilogy story would ever be told. Therefore, RotS has some contrivances to narratively connect Point A to Point B. Some really interrupted the flow of the story so they got cut, like Lucas establishing the precursor to the Rebel Alliance in RotS. One thing that remained in RotS was Obi-Wan and Yoda learning that Anakin was renamed Darth Vader, which he did by the plot contrivance that Palpatine went to the Jedi Temple and complimented Vader on a job well done, so it would be captured on the security recording that the CT Jedi Masters watched. It's very blatant – Yoda immediately regurgitates reworded RotJ dialogue from Obi-Wan's ghost to Luke about Anakin and Vader being the same person. (And the exposition-crammed hologram references to the "Empire" since it had just been declared elsewhere while the Masters were in the Temple, so Obi-Wan could then immediately start calling Palpatine by his CT title, lol.) Narratively, it is very obvious that Lucas is establishing that this is where they learn that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. Then Obi-Wan and Yoda believed "Darth Vader" had died on Mustafar, until Obi-Wan learns differently 10 years later in this series. Ewan McGregor started reacting with horror when the Third Sister first mentioned Vader, so I do not feel that he had thought this was just 'another Vader.'

Which then evokes Mamatried's valid question: How could Obi-Wan know about Inquisitors but never have heard of Vader?

My first counter-question is, Did Obi-Wan know about the Inquisitors before they came to Tatooine? He clearly had never left Tatooine since he had first arrived in RotS. Tatooine was not part of the Republic in the PT, and it is still not yet part of the Empire. I imagine that a lot of Jedi survivors of Order 66 went to the Outer Rim Territories to hide from the Empire, so the Inquisitors may travel the Outer Rim looking for them which is why some people on Tatooine had heard of Inquisitors. But as far as we know, the Inquisitors may have never been to Tatooine before this series. Obi-Wan's observation of them from hiding may have been his first experience with them. It was plainly obvious that they are minor level Force users and their job is to hunt down Jedi. That doesn't in any way indicate that Vader is still alive and their leader.

The other thing to consider is, that Vader's days of actively hunting Jedi may be done by this point. He was very busy with this mission early in the Purge, but as more and more of the Masters and more powerful Knights had been accounted for, he would be needed less for this purpose as the Inquisitorius was developed to take over the mission. This show's dialogue establishes that there aren't many "big fish" left to catch, which is why the Third Sister is bored with the minor Jedi and former younglings they are hunting. So it is possible that Obi-Wan may have even heard rumors about the Inquisitors but just never happen to learn that Vader had survived, who may have long since spent his time focusing on other things. It's also a bit of a narrative contrivance, but it just feels like one they are more likely to proceed with than the 'multiple Vaders' concept.

I feel the bigger question you guys are dancing around is, How did the Third Sister know that Vader had been Anakin Skywalker?! Narratively, the purpose she knew is so it could be more dramatic revelation for this show. It makes sense that Grand Moff Tarkin knew, but I can't imagine that many Imperials knew Vader's true identity, especially an Inquisitor under the Grand Inquisitor. Maybe the show will address this.

Darklighter79 wrote:
By the way is this the same inquisitor that is present in Rebels and in new Jedi Survivor trailer?

Yes, I do not think there are two Grand Inquisitors of the same species wearing almost the same outfit. This Grand Inquisitor in Obi-Wan Kenobi will live to be the one in Rebels. Jedi: Survivor will supposedly take place the same year as Obi-Wan Kenobi, but it is not explicit in the game trailer that Pau'an is supposed to be the Grand Inquisitor (although it probably is).

What I'm wondering about is, this live-action Grand Inquisitor does not have appear to have the "jagged teeth" that the other live-action Pau'an had in RotS (and that the animated Grand Inquisitor himself had in Rebels). Maybe the actor complained and refused to wear prosthetic teeth, or they didn't like the performance of talking through them (but the guy in RotS did ok). They could have even CGed the teeth here for continuity. Granted, the teeth are a minor issue, but I still wish they would have just paid to for Jason Isaacs to play him, and then the character's appearance seeing off would be less noticeable because the voice would be an exact match. And Jason Isaacs is a fantastic actor. Oh well.
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fogger1138
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I didn't see that scene (in Kenobi) as Obi-Wan learning that Anakin was Vader; I saw it as him learning Vader was alive.

Totally agree with Whill on "how does the Third Sister know he's Anakin" though. That was more jarring to me than his shock at learning Vader was alive.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenobi was low-profile on Tatooine, yet he gathered some intel about Inquisitors - like he knew they were former padawans and younglings. And this knowledge is very much post Order 66 and I doubt it was made public (as it would not look good for the Empire to alliance with so called an opposition Wink )

That's why it's hard to believe that in those days of turmoil - first years after fall of the Republic - Vader would be inactive. Yoda and Kenobi still not found. Possible other knights and masters too. And no Inquisitors to deal with this threat yet. So it was all on Vader and clones. Doctrine of fear had to be established and as the Emperor was its face, Vader surely had a role of a punishing hand. And we all know his ways.

Whill wrote:
I feel the bigger question you guys are dancing around is, How did the Third Sister know that Vader had been Anakin Skywalker?!

She seems to be very resourceful. In the second episode she admitted to searching old archives where she found info linking Organa and Kenobi. Maybe she also found the record where Palpatine renamed Anakin to Vader?

PS. I liked the range of comlink - my guess that due to the security reasons there is no chance of multiple relays along the way. After palm size hyperspace tracker in ep. II I was leaning towards this idea of tech level. Now I am sure.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reva's Motivation to find Obi Wan...

Could this be a double play by her, if she manages to face him it can lead her to a redemtion she actually might seek, given the memories she have.
driven to the grand price he would be, she would gain a hefty promition if the remdetion path fails and she may even become the grand inquisitor by the catch.

So could she actually be so driven becuse of a pragmatic double play, either get Obi Wan and through him a redemtion or catch him for her reward and promitions, making either outcome a win-win to her as of the series.
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fogger1138 wrote:
Yeah, I didn't see that scene (in Kenobi) as Obi-Wan learning that Anakin was Vader; I saw it as him learning Vader was alive.

Totally agree with Whill on "how does the Third Sister know he's Anakin" though. That was more jarring to me than his shock at learning Vader was alive.

Yeah, I blurted out to my family, "How does she know that?!" Before that, it had been my wife who was making frequent outbursts to the TV. She had a lot of anxiety watching Obi-Wan with Leia. "Why is he not holding her hand?" Etc.

Darklighter79 wrote:
Kenobi was low-profile on Tatooine, yet he gathered some intel about Inquisitors - like he knew they were former padawans and younglings. And this knowledge is very much post Order 66 and I doubt it was made public

I don't think it would be public either, but maybe Obi-Wan could have deduced from observation (or felt with the Force) that Inquisitors were former padawans. He didn't necessarily have advanced knowledge of them. And even if he did, Tatooine is not part of the Empire and they may have never been to Tatooine before this series. He could have heard rumors about the Inquisitors without knowing that Vader had once been involved in hunting Jedi.

Darklighter79 wrote:
That's why it's hard to believe that in those days of turmoil - first years after fall of the Republic - Vader would be inactive. Yoda and Kenobi still not found. Possible other knights and masters too. And no Inquisitors to deal with this threat yet. So it was all on Vader and clones. Doctrine of fear had to be established and as the Emperor was its face, Vader surely had a role of a punishing hand. And we all know his ways.

I agree, but it is not five years after the fall of the Republic. Obi-Wan Kenobi takes place 10 years after the fall of the Republic. Dialogue in this series established that it had been a while since the Inquisitors had hunted any Jedi of significance or challenge. After all these years, two notable Masters unaccounted for were Kenobi and Yoda, so the Third Sister wasn't giving up hope.

Darklighter79 wrote:
Whill wrote:
I feel the bigger question you guys are dancing around is, How did the Third Sister know that Vader had been Anakin Skywalker?!

She seems to be very resourceful. In the second episode she admitted to searching old archives where she found info linking Organa and Kenobi. Maybe she also found the record where Palpatine renamed Anakin to Vader?

A record? Why would that be on record? Anakin Skywalker was officially a traitor who also betrayed the Republic, so Vader's identity as Anakin Skywalker was a closely held secret. In the Empire, the Jedi Temple was closed to the public and just a personal Jedi museum for Palpatine because he takes great pleasure in the Revenge of the Sith. But maybe Vader allowed his Inquisitors access to the Temple to get to know their enemies better, and while she was there she looked up security recordings and saw Anakin.

Darklighter79 wrote:
I liked the range of comlink - my guess that due to the security reasons there is no chance of multiple relays along the way. After palm size hyperspace tracker in ep. II I was leaning towards this idea of tech level. Now I am sure.

You mean the holo-comlink that the Organas called Obi-Wan on? That's not necessarily without relays. It could be encrypted, and there could be dark holonets. But you have it work however you want in your game.
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