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pakman
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Joined: 20 Jul 2021
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 Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | pakman wrote: | | * There are less die rolls (EVERY single power is only one skill roll). |
I see this being an issue. One of the biggest complaints about Jedi is how their power level slopes up faster relative to that of non-FS PCs, and MAPs are a major factor in keeping them throttled back, both in terms of the available dice to make the appropriate Difficulty checks and forcing the PC to forego certain powers on account of having to space the power's activation over 2-3 rounds to avoid the attendant MAPs. |
Yes, there is a power scaling issue. agreed.
I find more maps stacking actions to throttle them is a crude solution.
Some may think this is fine. to each their own.
My solution is to slow the acceleration. In my game, the bonuses are all cut in thirds. You do not get a full die of bonus for each die in a force skill, you get +1 pip for each die bonus.
So, if you have a Control of 3D, that is three pips bonus.
So, end game, the guy with 9d in control, is only getting +3d.
that is a 6D change in power curve.
This handles the scaling well in my game. It is part of a comprehensive overall as stated before, all working together. Now, I know this may seem messy - as I am still editing my rules - and will be a bit before they are published. Most powers are a single skill roll - where I found some powers felt equally reliant on two skills - the player rolls the LOWER of the two skills - it is holding them back.
Now, back on the actions and rolls - lets say there is a skill I DO think should distract the player more than a single action- have the one roll count as two actions for map.
In the power descriptions of my skills, I have a lot of standardized nomenclature - like "Activate(1), or Concentration(2), or Activate(FR)".
The number in parenthesis is the number of actions the activity counts as for map purposes. FR =Full round. We already have a precedent on that some actions take more time etc. I have just standardized it, and used consistent labeling.
But overall, Force users get to use skills sooner, but they are weaker.
They scale slower, and do not get over powered as fast.
you don't have to stack action, action action and roll - to balance them.
it is built in from the ground up.
I love my weg, and not just with the fondness of nostalgia - but the designers had a lot of issues in it - but of course, that is where there are so many awesome house rules here.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Yes, but I only brought up Grievous to point out he couldn't make them (even if he wanted to), and I only brought up Jedi using the Force to make lightsabers to point out that there is something special about lightsabers compared to other weapons. I only brought that up because it is not unreasonable that over the course of the millennia, Jedi have developed a Force power specific to their preferred weapon/tool. A Force power Grievous doesn't have. |
I think SWU technology is sufficiently advanced that a high-end machine shop could build one up to Jedi standards of precision and reliability, but that lightsabers are a very niche weapon that only a Jedi can really use up to its full potential, so there's no real demand for them, and therefore no market for their construction. For a Jedi, using the Force to augment hand-building a lightsaber is as much a rite of passage as it is the assembly of their primary weapon and badge of office, so they aren't going to be hopping down to the lightsaber shop to pick up a new model, either. If Grievous wanted a lightsaber simply for the sake of having a lightsaber, he could almost certainly have one built. Except that he's also a paragon of a violent warrior culture with a pathological hatred of Jedi, so he gets particular satisfaction from killing them with their own weapons.
Saber Rakes get the worst of both worlds; their weapons are officially illegal, so there's no legitimate way to get one. So unless they have a LOT of credits to pay some Fringe mechanic to build them one, they have to make one themselves, while also including things like hidden actuators so that they can claim its just a prop that doesn't do anything when the main button is pressed.
EDIT: Now, I can also see that a Jedi using the Force while hand-building a saber establishes a bond of some sort, and that that bond will only get stronger as the Jedi trains with and uses that saber, but that's the extent of any mystical properties I think a saber should have.
| Quote: | | I was saying that Force users who have learned the power can do things with lightsabers that others can't do, such as deflect blaster bolts. Saber rakes shouldn't be able to do that, and personally I also do not see the Jedi doing that with anything other than a lightsaber. |
I think it depends greatly on what the other things might be. A Sith Sword, for example, might be rendered immune to blaster fire via Sith Alchemy, and a blaster bolt could be deflected with the flat edge of the blade. Blocking a blaster bolt should certainly not be possible with anything short of the Force - I don't think we even see Grievous do it, despite his augmented melee abilities - but a Force user with the requisite power should be able to get just about any inanimate object in the way of a blaster bolt, whether its a lightsaber, a vibro-axe or even a coffee cup. The real issue then is whether or not the object has the capacity to ignore or resist the damage cause by the blaster bolt, and if so, by how much. Recall in the opening chapters of HttE, where Joruus C'baoth used TK to block a blaster bolt with a rock. The rock didn't survive, but the blaster bolt was blocked.
My take is that the ability to block a blaster bolt resides solely in the Jedi. What happens to the blaster bolt is dependent on the object used. While something like a hand-held Energy Shield might be better at it, a lightsaber is more versatile, while also being the traditional weapon and symbol of the Jedi Order.
| Quote: | | Obi-Wan's guidance in the trench is a continuation of Luke's brief training with the remote on the Falcon. Obi-Wan told him to "Let go of your conscious self, and act on instinct." In the trench, Luke was still being told to "let go." Lucas further highlights this by contrast with little Ani in TPM, who was younger with a less developed ego so was naturally more instinctive, making it possible for him to "oops" and destroy the mother ship. |
That's part of why I think Jedi should start learning Sense first, instead of Control. You have to learn to feel the Force before you can start to control it.
| Quote: | | the jumping rules themselves may need clarified. |
Agreed. D6 Space has a nice baseline for that.
| Quote: | | I even think Telekinesis needs a sense component. |
I concur.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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No, Grievous never parried blaster bolts with his lightsabers. He used them solely for melee and attempted intimidation. In your non-film Zahn example, it seems to me that Joruus C'baoth may have been using Telekinesis as a reaction skill and with that modification, you could use RAW's Cover/Protection rules for the rock protecting him from the blaster bolt. I don't see that as quite the same thing that Jedi do with lightsabers.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Obi-Wan's guidance in the trench is a continuation of Luke's brief training with the remote on the Falcon. Obi-Wan told him to "Let go of your conscious self, and act on instinct." In the trench, Luke was still being told to "let go." Lucas further highlights this by contrast with little Ani in TPM, who was younger with a less developed ego so was naturally more instinctive, making it possible for him to "oops" and destroy the mother ship. |
That's part of why I think Jedi should start learning Sense first, instead of Control. You have to learn to feel the Force before you can start to control it. |
That makes some sense. In my concept of the The Force attribute, you get both sense and control at the same time. The Force is something a character is either born with or not, but if so then at what point in the character's growing up it manifested may vary, and it certainly could be a part of a character's background that sense had manifested first.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Now, I can also see that a Jedi using the Force while hand-building a saber establishes a bond of some sort, and that that bond will only get stronger as the Jedi trains with and uses that saber, but that's the extent of any mystical properties I think a saber should have.
...
My take is that the ability to block a blaster bolt resides solely in the Jedi. |
The only way I even see a "bond" so-to-speak is how it manifests in the development of a character's lightsaber abilities (Force or non-Force-related). I don't see any game-mechanical mystical properties in the lightsaber itself, so a character's abilities with lightsabers are transferable to any lightsaber, whether the lightsaber was created by that character or another Jedi. Film case in point: When the Jedi calvary showed up on Geonosis, Obi-Wan and Anakin were tossed replacement lightsabers that they used with the exact same prowess they used their own lightsabers. It is also my take that the ability to block blaster bolts resides solely in the Jedi's ability with the Force. I just view it as an ability that requires lightsabers to use.
It seems clear we do not agree on whether there should be a lightsaber Force power with unique lightsaber-based abilities, or wether there shouldn't and the power should be generalized. I'm sure some GMs may agree with you, and I know that other GMs agree with me. We'll all just have to agree to disagree on that. I personally see your logic, but my main resistance to generalizing lightsaber powers is an aesthetic one. I view lightsabers as a fundamental aspect of the setting, as fundamental as the Force. I feel that Jedi displaying filmic lightsaber powers with mundane objects is diluting the inherent value of the setting.
I've never even had a gimmick lightsaber in my game (other than non-filmic lightsaber colors). Classic lightsabers are "the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon, for a more... civilized age."
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | pakman wrote: | | * There are less die rolls (EVERY single power is only one skill roll). |
I see this being an issue. One of the biggest complaints about Jedi is how their power level slopes up faster relative to that of non-FS PCs, and MAPs are a major factor in keeping them throttled back, both in terms of the available dice to make the appropriate Difficulty checks and forcing the PC to forego certain powers on account of having to space the power's activation over 2-3 rounds to avoid the attendant MAPs. |
True that.. MAPS is one of the biggest "killers" for jedi, whether reigning in dark siders, OR Pcs..
| Whill wrote: | | I agree with that. I was saying that Force users who have learned the power can do things with lightsabers that others can't do, such as deflect blaster bolts. Saber rakes shouldn't be able to do that, and personally I also do not see the Jedi doing that with anything other than a lightsaber. |
I could possibly see a rake doing it, from a LONG range shot.. BUT up close in short range.. Not a chance
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | That's part of why I think Jedi should start learning Sense first, instead of Control. You have to learn to feel the Force before you can start to control it. |
I'd probably put that on which force tradition he's going through.. I can easily see some pushing Sense first.. Some however, i see control first..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | In your non-film Zahn example, it seems to me that Joruus C'baoth may have been using Telekinesis as a reaction skill and with that modification, you could use RAW's Cover/Protection rules for the rock protecting him from the blaster bolt. I don't see that as quite the same thing that Jedi do with lightsabers. |
I'd probably require something a bit more advanced than basic Telekinesis, as it doesn't seem to work nearly fast enough. I'd be more inclined toward a higher-level skill with TK as a required Power.
And yes, the Cover rules would certainly be a good place to start with when trying to block a blaster bolt with something other than a lightsaber, especially when said item is not immune to blaster damage. No, it isn't the same as a lightsaber, but that doesn't mean that a Jedi/Sith can't block a blaster bolt with an inanimate object, even if the object can only do so once, and the Jedi may still take damage when doing so.
| Quote: | | It is also my take that the ability to block blaster bolts resides solely in the Jedi's ability with the Force. I just view it as an ability that requires lightsabers to use. |
Here's the thing, though. At its core, the ability to block a blaster bolt boils down to the ability to let the Force guide the character's movements so as to place the lightsaber in exactly the right place to block the blaster bolt. That ability is going to persist regardless of what the character puts in the blaster bolt's way. Combining that with the lightsaber's unique traits (as in, the ability to not take damage and to redirect the bolts) is what makes it truly special. While a Jedi or Sith could conceivably pick up any object and get it in the path of a blaster bolt, doing so is far from ideal (for a multitude of reasons) and absolutely something that would only be done if there were no other alternative. Any device that might even approach a lightsaber's utility in this regard (Sith sword, Magnaguard Electrostave, etc) are going to be as rare as lightsabers, if not more so.
To clarify, a Jedi would not be able to pick up, say, a vibro-blade and use it to deflect a blaster bolt back at a shooter. Instead, the best he could hope for is to get the vibro-blade in the path of the blaster bolt, at which point it becomes Protection with a Strength of 2D. Depending on the blaster being fired, that vibro-blade will only be usable as a parrying device that one time, the Jedi will likely take splash damage, and the vibro-blade itself will be destroyed.
Having a power focused on the Jedi instead of the lightsaber allows for scenes like Obi-wan's finale battle against Grievous, where he doesn't even have a lightsaber, but is able to improvise with an electrostave, brawling and finally a blaster. He would only be able to make use of the lightsaber's unique properties if he had one, but that doesn't mean the Force no longer warns him of threats or helps guide his responses to that threat.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I could possibly see a rake doing it, from a LONG range shot.. BUT up close in short range.. Not a chance |
The only way a Rake - or anyone for that matter - should be allowed to attempt blocking a blaster bolt with a lightweapon is if they are Force sensitive, with the appropriate power that allows them to make the attempt. Range has nothing to do with it, as the ability to parry a blaster bolt with a lightweapon has nothing to do with biological senses.
"Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them."
The only exception I can see would be for a handheld shield of some kind, which is less about parrying than it is about carrying around portable Cover.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Right.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | In your non-film Zahn example, it seems to me that Joruus C'baoth may have been using Telekinesis as a reaction skill and with that modification, you could use RAW's Cover/Protection rules for the rock protecting him from the blaster bolt. I don't see that as quite the same thing that Jedi do with lightsabers. |
I'd probably require something a bit more advanced than basic Telekinesis, as it doesn't seem to work nearly fast enough. I'd be more inclined toward a higher-level skill with TK as a required Power. |
That makes sense for using telekinesis as a reaction skill, but personally, I don't currently have any motivation to emulate Joruus C'baoth's power in my game. But anyway, we agree this isn't a version of the lightsaber combat ability.
Now I have been thinking about the Force Push ability the Jedi use a lot in the prequels (as an action, not a reaction). That for sure exists in my SWU. It moves something faster than the slow "Telekinesis" of the classic films, which is way the WEG power was written. (Even the boxes Vader pushed into Luke on Bespin weren't going that fast.) But I don't know if Force Push should be a different power. Maybe it should be part of the same powers with slightly different rules and difficulties.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | It is also my take that the ability to block blaster bolts resides solely in the Jedi's ability with the Force. I just view it as an ability that requires lightsabers to use. |
Here's the thing, though. At its core, the ability to block a blaster bolt boils down to the ability to let the Force guide the character's movements so as to place the lightsaber in exactly the right place to block the blaster bolt. That ability is going to persist regardless of what the character puts in the blaster bolt's way. Combining that with the lightsaber's unique traits (as in, the ability to not take damage and to redirect the bolts) is what makes it truly special. While a Jedi or Sith could conceivably pick up any object and get it in the path of a blaster bolt, doing so is far from ideal (for a multitude of reasons) and absolutely something that would only be done if there were no other alternative. Any device that might even approach a lightsaber's utility in this regard (Sith sword, Magnaguard Electrostave, etc) are going to be as rare as lightsabers, if not more so.
To clarify, a Jedi would not be able to pick up, say, a vibro-blade and use it to deflect a blaster bolt back at a shooter. Instead, the best he could hope for is to get the vibro-blade in the path of the blaster bolt, at which point it becomes Protection with a Strength of 2D. Depending on the blaster being fired, that vibro-blade will only be usable as a parrying device that one time, the Jedi will likely take splash damage, and the vibro-blade itself will be destroyed. |
Here's the thing, though. I'm not disputing your point. As I said...
| Whill wrote: | | I personally see your logic, but my main resistance to generalizing lightsaber powers is an aesthetic one. I view lightsabers as a fundamental aspect of the setting, as fundamental as the Force. I feel that Jedi displaying filmic lightsaber powers with mundane objects is diluting the inherent value of the setting. |
I understand you do not agree. There isn't anything you can say to argue against my personal feelings about Star Wars going back to my childhood, and I am not arguing that my feelings are objectively right for anyone else. But my aesthetic-based choice is not unreasonable either. It is not unreasonable that the Jedi could develop powers unique to their preferred weapon. I'm not saying they couldn't develop a generalized power that applies other things too, but I don't need them to in my game. If you want to, go for it.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Having a power focused on the Jedi instead of the lightsaber allows for scenes like Obi-wan's finale battle against Grievous, where he doesn't even have a lightsaber, but is able to improvise with an electrostave, brawling and finally a blaster. He would only be able to make use of the lightsaber's unique properties if he had one, but that doesn't mean the Force no longer warns him of threats or helps guide his responses to that threat. |
Here it seems like you are trying to portray my view as something that it's not. Of course a Jedi still has the Force to help him with other things besides using the lightsaber. I never said otherwise, so please don't conflate my view with someone else's. I only stated that I personally do not like the idea of Jedi deflecting blaster bolts with mundane weapons or other objects. I stated the reason was mostly an aesthetic one. It is not out of some argument that the Force couldn't work that way, or that the lightsaber itself has any power. There should be such a Force Power as a general Danger Sense and the Jedi has many tools to boost their abilities. And there are also just non-Force skills (sometimes boosted by character points) that Jedi and non-Jedi alike can do. In my my game Lightsaber is an advanced skill with melee as a prerequisite, and I don't imagine Obi-Wan is too shabby in melee or brawling. His blaster shot to kill Grievous would have been Very Easy. He used Telekinesis to slide it over to him while Grievous was advancing to him, and then shot him at Point Blank Range.
Now as recently discussed in another thread, I'm ok with the absorb/redirect energy powers that Vader demonstrated, but I also do not see this as the same thing. That is the Jedi actually absorbing he energy safely (instead of it doing damage), and then redirecting it. With the Lightsaber Combat Force power, the lightsaber or Jedi isn't absorbing anything whether the bolts are redirected or not.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now I have been thinking about the Force Push ability the Jedi use a lot in the prequels (as an action, not a reaction). That for sure exists in my SWU. It moves something faster than the slow "Telekinesis" of the classic films, which is way the WEG power was written. (Even the boxes Vader pushed into Luke on Bespin weren't going that fast.) But I don't know if Force Push should be a different power. Maybe it should be part of the same powers with slightly different rules and difficulties. |
Well other than Yoda doing it to those royal guard of palpy, the only other times we saw it used, was on DROIDS, so no risk of DSP there...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | That makes sense for using telekinesis as a reaction skill, but personally, I don't currently have any motivation to emulate Joruus C'baoth's power in my game. |
I don't mind having it as a high-level ability, with appropriate Difficulty levels to match. Just because a rule exists to do something doesn't mean it should be easy, and the ability to react that quickly with Telekinesis is an indicator of how powerful C'baoth was, not something that the average noob Jedi PC should be able to do on a regular basis.
| Quote: | | But anyway, we agree this isn't a version of the lightsaber combat ability. |
There's a degree of overlap, but essentially correct.
| Quote: | | Now I have been thinking about the Force Push ability the Jedi use a lot in the prequels (as an action, not a reaction). That for sure exists in my SWU. It moves something faster than the slow "Telekinesis" of the classic films, which is way the WEG power was written. (Even the boxes Vader pushed into Luke on Bespin weren't going that fast.) But I don't know if Force Push should be a different power. Maybe it should be part of the same powers with slightly different rules and difficulties. |
D&D's write-up for the Telekinesis Spell has some good suggestions, as well as a lot of detail. Sustained Force: Move an object up to 20ft/round in any direction, or manipulate an object as if with one hand (i.e. pull a lever or rope, turn a key, rotate an object, etc.) Can also untie simple knots at higher Difficulty.
Combat Maneuver: Affect one target with a Shove (in lieu of damage), Disarm, Grapple (pinning them in place) or Trip.
Violent Thrust: Hurl one target object (or multiple if in close proximity), including weapons (which inflict normal damage on impact, but must be targeted) or beings/creatures within the weight limits. Impact with a solid object damages both items.
I'll be going this route when I get around to re-doing my Lightsaber Form rules. I also have Dodge as an Advanced Skill, with Brawling Parry and Melee Parry combined into Defense. What I'm thinking w/r/t Lightsaber Combat / Force Combat is, when the power is active, the Jedi can use their Defense skill (augmented by any bonuses from the power) against high-velocity ranged attacks that would normally only be avoidable by the (A) Dodge skill. As in, rather than Moving in a manner that makes the character a more difficult target, the Jedi has enough precognitive warning that he can actively avoid being hit. The rules for Defense also allow the Jedi to make use of this even if his lightsaber isn't on, using the "+10 to Attacker if Defender is Unarmed and Attacker is Armed" modifier.
| Quote: | | I don't imagine Obi-Wan is too shabby in melee or brawling. |
Agreed. We see enough kicks, punches and grapples mixed in with lightsaber combat on-screen that Brawling should be a prerequisite for Lightsaber Combat.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Well other than Yoda doing it to those royal guard of palpy, the only other times we saw it used, was on DROIDS, so no risk of DSP there... |
Yoda being able to do it was part of my motivation for my Willpower rule. Basically, he used TK to inflict Stun Damage only.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Well other than Yoda doing it to those royal guard of palpy, the only other times we saw it used, was on DROIDS, so no risk of DSP there... |
Yoda being able to do it was part of my motivation for my Willpower rule. Basically, he used TK to inflict Stun Damage only. |
Yeah, I do not support a flat-out automatic DSP like in RAW. Using the Force to knock out guards of an evil Sith tyrant is not an evil action.
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Dr. Bidlo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think this is a case of the Dark Points system from WEG failing us. Causing damage or death in of itself is not evil, it is the emotional state of the force user while performing the action. The RAW rule of dark side points being automatic for certain powers while there is no limit on how many people you can dismember with a lightsaber withput consequence is broken.
Unless something REQUORES Dark Side energy/anger/hatred, use of a force power should not cause an automatic Dark side point. There should be no problem if Luke did in fact use Telekenetic Kill to choke those Gamorreans in RotJ rather than trying to explain it as anything else. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Bidlo wrote: | | Unless something REQUORES Dark Side energy/anger/hatred, use of a force power should not cause an automatic Dark side point. |
If a power requires the Dark Side then yes it should cause a DSP, but there are other ways to get DSPs too.
| Quote: | | I think this is a case of the Dark Points system from WEG failing us. Causing damage or death in of itself is not evil, it is the emotional state of the force user while performing the action. The RAW rule of dark side points being automatic for certain powers while there is no limit on how many people you can dismember with a lightsaber withput consequence is broken. |
Negative emotions while using the Force would warrant DSPs, but not only emotional state. A Jedi serenely murdering an innocent baby, even without using the Force to do it, would warrant a DSP for pure moral reasons, regardless of the emotional state.
Out of the two, the moral standard is the clearer one for roleplaying purposes, because the GM decides what is right or wrong more absolutely. "That action will earn you a DSP. Are you sure you want to do that?"
A PC's emotional state is more open for players to argue and debate. I for one do not require my players to always "stay in character" at the game table. "Will, I know it seemed like I was emotional when I declared my attack, but that was just me as a player speaking, not my character." That exact quote was stated by a player at my game table.
| Quote: | | There should be no problem if Luke did in fact use Telekenetic Kill to choke those Gamorreans in RotJ rather than trying to explain it as anything else. |
No problem? I disagree.
And besides, I didn't see any evidence that he actually killed them. Force users can telekinetically choke without killing, as Vader demonstrated in the original Star Wars. Luke could have done that to get them to back off, as that is exactly what happened. He could have let the Force choke go before it actually killed them. I'd say at most they passed out unconscious, so maybe it was a 'Telekinetic Stun.'
Even without killing the guards, I'm not saying he definitely shouldn't have gotten a DSP. Maybe using the Force to intimidate or cause fear should also be DSP-worthy. But Luke is an NPC so it doesn't matter too much. The point of the scene was to show the audience that Luke has grown in power since we last saw him, and he had a potential to go bad. So while there is some darkness there in Jabba's Palace, it was ultimately a red herring because the screenplay dictated that he didn't end up turning to the Dark Side. There really was no reason for Luke to kill the guards – He only needed to get them out of his way.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Or as some suggested he used affect mind, to MAKE THEM think they were choking.
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Whill
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