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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | I'm not sure how it would be the other way. |
Because the energy cocoon expends itself against the armor, since it's the first part of the bolt to come into contact. Thus, the armor resists the bolt as though it were an energy attack, but the solid portion of the bolt allows the shot to be tailored for specific effects. From a design standpoint, why go to the effort of sheathing a projectile in energy if the energy doesn't provide an advantage? |
Because the energy, in the case of physical armor, works to overcome the armor. It weakens it so the physical weapon only has to deal with the energy protection of the armor.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:51 am Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Because the energy, in the case of physical armor, works to overcome the armor. It weakens it so the physical weapon only has to deal with the energy protection of the armor. |
But that's not how the rules for armor work. The armor bonus is an aggregate rating of the total value of protection, not an energy protection layer over a physical protection layer. I mean, you could conceivably design a multi-later system, like a flexible vest filled with pockets of energy-diffusing gel that's worn over the top of a normal armor vest, but that would require its own rules. The default rules for most forms of armor is that they protect better against physical attacks than they do energy ones, so designing a firearm that overcomes that protection would be the only realistic reason for going to the extra effort of designing a weapon with both a physical and energy component. Why bother otherwise, when you could just put all your R&D resources into building a really powerful firearm that just brute forces its way through armor, not an energy cocoon that doesn't provide a tangible advantage?
Seriously, what even is the point of the energy cocoon otherwise?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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lecher000
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Joined: 13 Oct 2021
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Because the energy, in the case of physical armor, works to overcome the armor. It weakens it so the physical weapon only has to deal with the energy protection of the armor. |
But that's not how the rules for armor work. The armor bonus is an aggregate rating of the total value of protection, not an energy protection layer over a physical protection layer. I mean, you could conceivably design a multi-later system, like a flexible vest filled with pockets of energy-diffusing gel that's worn over the top of a normal armor vest, but that would require its own rules. The default rules for most forms of armor is that they protect better against physical attacks than they do energy ones, so designing a firearm that overcomes that protection would be the only realistic reason for going to the extra effort of designing a weapon with both a physical and energy component. Why bother otherwise, when you could just put all your R&D resources into building a really powerful firearm that just brute forces its way through armor, not an energy cocoon that doesn't provide a tangible advantage?
Seriously, what even is the point of the energy cocoon otherwise? |
Yea, you make a pretty decent point. The armor really isn't "layered" in that there's an energy layer and then a physical layer, if you're wearing a single piece of armor that offers both protection, it's because of the materials, most often. With that being the case, they really should both be affected.
I've changed the bowcaster alternate rule to follow this logic, giving it initial energy damage, and then physical explosive damage as a secondary effect. |
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Because the energy, in the case of physical armor, works to overcome the armor. It weakens it so the physical weapon only has to deal with the energy protection of the armor. |
But that's not how the rules for armor work. The armor bonus is an aggregate rating of the total value of protection, not an energy protection layer over a physical protection layer. I mean, you could conceivably design a multi-later system, like a flexible vest filled with pockets of energy-diffusing gel that's worn over the top of a normal armor vest, but that would require its own rules. The default rules for most forms of armor is that they protect better against physical attacks than they do energy ones, so designing a firearm that overcomes that protection would be the only realistic reason for going to the extra effort of designing a weapon with both a physical and energy component. Why bother otherwise, when you could just put all your R&D resources into building a really powerful firearm that just brute forces its way through armor, not an energy cocoon that doesn't provide a tangible advantage?
Seriously, what even is the point of the energy cocoon otherwise? |
I'm not saying that it has two layers; I'm saying it has two different ratings for protection against different sources, and that the nature of the bowcaster's bolts is such that it uses the worst of the two because it is a combined weapon. The energy cocoon is what makes that possible. There's a degree of handwaving involved, but I'm comfortable with that.
Why design it that way? Why do we use chemical propellant instead of magnetic rails? Why do we use internal combustion engines instead of electric? Why did we go with VHS over Betamax? Why does America use the Imperial measurements instead of metric? Sometimes, it's economic forces, and sometimes, it's what people came up with at the time and stuck with.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I'm not saying that it has two layers; I'm saying it has two different ratings for protection against different sources, and that the nature of the bowcaster's bolts is such that it uses the worst of the two because it is a combined weapon. The energy cocoon is what makes that possible. |
So, the energy cocoon makes it possible for a solid projectile to be treated like a... solid? That makes no sense. The energy cocoon is around the solid projectile, and is by default the first thing that contacts the armor, so your argument is that the energy cocoon has no effect? Even when armor stats specifically say that energy is more effective against basically every kind of armor?
I mean, if you want bowcasters to suck in your setting, fine, but you really need a better reason.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | I'm not saying that it has two layers; I'm saying it has two different ratings for protection against different sources, and that the nature of the bowcaster's bolts is such that it uses the worst of the two because it is a combined weapon. The energy cocoon is what makes that possible. |
So, the energy cocoon makes it possible for a solid projectile to be treated like a... solid? That makes no sense. The energy cocoon is around the solid projectile, and is by default the first thing that contacts the armor, so your argument is that the energy cocoon has no effect? Even when armor stats specifically say that energy is more effective against basically every kind of armor?
I mean, if you want bowcasters to suck in your setting, fine, but you really need a better reason. |
The energy cocoon makes it possible for the projectile to be counted as either a solid or energy, depending on which is better for the shooter. Frequently, this will be counting it as energy. However, if there are ray shields of some type, the projectile is counted as a solid.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | The energy cocoon makes it possible for the projectile to be counted as either a solid or energy, depending on which is better for the shooter. Frequently, this will be counting it as energy. However, if there are ray shields of some type, the projectile is counted as a solid. |
Okay, that clears it up. When you said "worst" in your op, I translated that as "the most disadvantageous to the bowcaster".
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | The energy cocoon makes it possible for the projectile to be counted as either a solid or energy, depending on which is better for the shooter. Frequently, this will be counting it as energy. However, if there are ray shields of some type, the projectile is counted as a solid. |
Thanks for the clarification.
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Star Wars D6 Damage |
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lecher000
Ensign
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Gave the list a further update, adding SNIPER RIFLES. They now give an automatic Fire Control bonus of +2 pips to each attack roll, unless another stated Fire Control bonus is given for the weapon. |
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lecher000
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Further updated list, added Explosives. Shockwave effects affect anything within the initial blast radius and halves movement and disables their ability to dodge until it's their turn again. Creatures that are within the number of dice x 2 of the damage of the explosion are effected. (Creatures up to 10 feet tall are affected by explosives 5D in strength). |
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lecher000
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Joined: 13 Oct 2021
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Further updated. Finally got around to figuring out how to enhance melee weapons. I think you'll all enjoy what I've set up for them. I also modified vibroweapons slightly. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16174
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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I like the granularity of this; I've considered trying to port over the Piercing/Stabbing/Bludgeoning aspects, but hadn't really put much thought into it.
| lecher000 wrote: | | VIBROWEAPONS - Hits against organic matter grants an additional +1D when rolling for Damage. Vibroweapons can also be used to parry lightsaber attacks, as any other normal melee weapon would be destroyed. Power swords count as vibroweapons. |
While I do think Power Weapons (as in, solid weapons that generate an energy field around them) should be able to parry lightsabers, vibro-weapons should not unless they are composed of some sort of lightsaber resistant material.
As far as organic vs. inorganic, an alternate take that occurs to me is to treat inorganic targets (droids, for example) as though they are wearing Armor with a +1D vs Physical rating.
| Quote: | | PIERCING WEAPONS - Piercing weapons such as knives and spears deal half-damage to droids. Organics on the other-hand, if a wild die has rolled a 6, suffer an additional +2 damage on top of whatever is rolled. |
Instead of half damage, perhaps just have the damage reduced one or two steps against droids.
| Quote: | | BLUDGEONING WEAPONS - Clubs, batons, and brass knuckles all have the ability to fatigue a target. If a 6 appears on the wild die for one, they must roll a Moderate Stamina check. If failed, they suffer as if under the effects of Fatigue. |
Alternately, have Bludgeoning Weapons inflict one level of Stun more than the Damage rolled.
| Quote: | | SLASHING - Swords, axes, machetes, and the like all have the ability to sever bodyparts. If the target fails to soak the damage of a slashing weapon by 10 or more, they have lost a limb. |
Failing to Soak by 10 or more is already an Incapacitated result on the regular Damage Chart. Maybe instead, have Damage go up a step on a Wild 6.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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lecher000
Ensign
Joined: 13 Oct 2021
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Alternate Weapon Type Rules |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
While I do think Power Weapons (as in, solid weapons that generate an energy field around them) should be able to parry lightsabers, vibro-weapons should not unless they are composed of some sort of lightsaber resistant material. |
I think I misread the wookiepedia entry, where it said "some vibroweapons" have a cortosis weave. I'll change it.
| Quote: | | As far as organic vs. inorganic, an alternate take that occurs to me is to treat inorganic targets (droids, for example) as though they are wearing Armor with a +1D vs Physical rating. |
Well that's only if your goal is to nerf vibroweapons.
| Quote: | | Instead of half damage, perhaps just have the damage reduced one or two steps against droids. |
So a wound drops to a stun? Yea, that could work.
| Quote: | | Alternately, have Bludgeoning Weapons inflict one level of Stun more than the Damage rolled. |
I want to try and keep stun damage unique to stun-specific weapons, to keep stun batons and regular clubs objectively separate. Clubs can technically achieve the same end-goal of the character becoming knocked unconscious through stunning for a stun weapon or exhaustion from fatigue damage, though stun damage has its own unique category.
| Quote: | | Failing to Soak by 10 or more is already an Incapacitated result on the regular Damage Chart. Maybe instead, have Damage go up a step on a Wild 6. |
Right, but in addition, they suffer losing a limb.
Thanks for the feedback. I've decided to split Cortosis Weave into its own category since it can be applied to virtually any weapon, not just vibroweapons. Power swords/weapons count as cortosis and have no extra cost. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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lecher000
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Slashing weapons doing less damage to droids makes sense. But saying weapons have reduced effects against droids is meaningless without a droid damage system in the first place. RAW never provide one (oops). CRM made one, and I made one. |
I don't see why slashing weapons would be less effective considering piercing weapons are designed in order to bleed out targets and attack organs like the lungs and heart. Droids lack both blood and a need for lungs, though I guess you could say their "heart" is their power cell.
Also, the droid damage system is the same as the human one, they're simply a different category of being. It's definitely not useless, especially since ion weapons from the beginning are designed to only be effective on droids and vehicles, predating any of my own rules. People are free to house-rule a droid damage system though. |
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