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WEG Stereotyped Aliens
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:45 pm    Post subject: WEG Stereotyped Aliens Reply with quote

WEG fluffed and statted some characters as stereotypes of their species. Here are 13 examples that stand out in my mind. The sources used here were early WEG: The Star Wars Sourcebook, and Galaxy Guides 1, 3, 4, and 5.

    Momaw Nadon - He was a nature-loving high priest of Ithorians, a species who worships nature.

    Greedo - WEG gave him the attributes exactly matching Bounty Hunter PC template. His original WEG capsule states he is a bounty hunter which is an honored profession of Rodians. On Rodia they hunt for sport, and out in the galaxy they are commonly ruthless hunters who Hutts are fond of employing.

    Ponda Baba - He was a criminal who pushed Luke and didn't like him for no reason. "Aqualish are a people with nasty, belligerent dispositions" with "occupations where violence and hatred were considered benefits."

    Lak Sivrak - He was "a scout of some skill" who "never speaks to anyone" and "spends most of his time out of touch with civilization." He was statted out with 6D in survival. Shistavanens were "quiet beings" and "regarded as possibly the best scouts in the Empire." Their superior "survivals skills make them ideal first explorers of unknown and untamed worlds."

    Ellorrs Madak - He was a Duros who was a starship hanger bay owner, piloting instructor, and former scout. Duros typically had spacer professions.

    Bossk - He was a renown bounty hunter who hated Wookiees, and he "developed quite a reputation as a Wookiee hunter." Trandoshans were an enemy species of the Wookiees. They were the ones who suggested that the Empire enslave Wookiees, and "many Trandoshans volunteered to hunt down all renegade Wookiees who escaped enslavement."

    Zuckuss - He was a Gand Findsman, and "being a Gand Findsman was a time-honored tradition on Gand."

    Bib Fortuna and Oola - "Twi’leks are known throughout the galaxy as clever and resourceful, though ruthless businessmen. Bib Fortuna is no exception." The Twi'lek homeworld was known for exporting spice and slaves (selling their own people into slavery, especially women). Bib Fortuna was a spice smuggler before he cleverly became Jabba's major domo, and Oola was a slave woman.

    Jabba the Hutt - He was an egomaniacal crime lord, and Hutts were egomaniacs known for organized crime.

    Barada - He was one of Jabba's indentured servants, and many Klantooinians are indentured servants to Hutts.

    Tessek - Quarren harbored a deep hated of their Mon Calamari brothers so betrayed them to the Empire. Tessek was a trusted ally of Jabba who secretly sold information to the Empire and plotted to overthrow Jabba.

    Nien Nunb - He is quite a pilot and navigator who dislikes SoroSuub and likes to laugh. Sullustans are "known throughout the galaxy as able pilots and navigators." The "majority of Sullustans" dislike SoroSuub. "The race has a sense of humor."

Can you think of other examples?

Do you embrace the alien types or do you change the species fluff for your game? Even with embracing the species fluff, does your game have characters who fulfill the types, oppose the types, or both? Is it only PCs that can be exceptions?

NPC-wise, I personally enjoy having alien characters that reinforce the types then slipping in rarer characters who defy expectations for that species. I encourage players to play an alien PC against species type.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the most part, yes i do embrace those stereotypes. Its rare that i do not do anything out of the ordinary with those..
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I view them as stereotypes... the thing people tend to believe about every alien they come across, regardless of its applicability to the individual.

For example, Rodians. One of the largest cultures on Rodia corresponds to those bounty hunter stereotypes. But there's a lot of Rodian cultures, and not everyone who is part of the bounty hunter culture is a bounty hunter or bounty hunter adjacent. That group still has droid techs, pilots, and scholars... they're just not what everyone expects from a Rodian.

Most of the time, NPCs will treat you according to the Story Factors of your race, until they get to know you. People might initially assume Hera Syndula is like any other twi'lek... but she'll quickly disabuse them of that notion.

While I tend to view the galaxy as being pretty racist in this regard, it's also pretty cosmopolitan in most places. So, while they'll assume a Rodian is a bounty hunter, or a twi'lek is a schemer, they'll relatively quickly figure out that Cid the Trandoshan isn't the same as Bossk the Trandoshan (and, woah, Cid is voiced by Rhea Pearlman!)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hated the stereotypes and was one of my pet peeves about the entire EU. It feels incredibly lazy.
Can you imagine if one applied the same logic to other movies? It would get pretty ridiculous. Like, pick any movie and imagine that every character in it was suddenly an archetype for their profession and nationality/ Culture (since most movies don't depict other species).

You watch Indiana Jones and come to the conclusion that every archaeologist prefers to wear fedoras and get into adventures. The bull whip is their sacred tool/ backup weapon. They train for years in Archaeology Academy on how to effectively use it to swing from. No one else has the dexterity required to use one effectively without that extensive training.



The one I hate the worst is Bothans. Since many Bothans died to bring the secret plans...suddenly Bothans are a species of spies and their entire planetary society is based around secret information brokering.

Makes me irritated just thinking about it.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bothans are a great example, and they only appeared in film dialogue. And that was Zahn himself who made a stereotype out of the Rebel spies mentioned in the film.

I was annoyed by the alien stereotyping as a young GM playing 1e, but I got over it. My compromise was to consider the types as describing as little as 51% of the species, and include characters that go against type in the game. I've had multiple players that chose to play alien PCs that went against type, which I encourage and enjoy. But for the rest of the species, it is up to me to include some diversity as NPCs.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, the later movies did, intentionally or not, ignore the stereotypes.

In the background of the prequels you see Rodians who don't appear, based on the context of the scene to be bounty hunters. They are just galactic citizens.

Almost like GL didn't consider the EU very important. Wink
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
To be fair, the later movies did, intentionally or not, ignore the stereotypes.

In the background of the prequels you see Rodians who don't appear, based on the context of the scene to be bounty hunters. They are just galactic citizens.

Almost like GL didn't consider the EU very important. Wink

Sure. Palpatine even had a Huttese-speaking Rodian aid in his office on Coruscant. Where I was coming from, was honoring the species fluff (and stats in some cases), that for the CT was largely defined by WEG, which existed before the PT. Of course the EU fluff was updated by the PT and other post-WEG continuity, but it is amazing how much of the WEG fluff was kept. So even taking the PT into account, Rodians still have a huge cultural emphasis on hunting. So a lot of the alien stereotyping that started in the late 80s is still here in the franchise today.

One option for a GMs are to reject the species fluff and come up with something they like better. Even for GMs who want to take the PT into account, it is still mostly an open book for most species. I'd be fascinated to hear about any GM's alternate takes on species. If I liked it, I would probably incorporate it to some extent into my SWU. Like I said above, in my SWU any stereotyping could represent as little as 51% of the entire species, so there is still a lot of room for diversity in most species.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

West End's stereotyping was greatly amplified in the retelling. People on the internet in the last umpteen years tended to replace "many" with "all".

I try to see if it makes sense when you replace a species name with "Scottish" and the job or whatever with "bagpipers". "All Scottish people play bagpipes" is ridiculous while "Many Scottish people are hired as bagpipers" is not.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
I try to see if it makes sense when you replace a species name with "Scottish" and the job or whatever with "bagpipers". "All Scottish people play bagpipes" is ridiculous while "Many Scottish people are hired as bagpipers" is not.

That's a great general standard to go by. Thanks for sharing it.

TauntaunScout wrote:
West End's stereotyping was greatly amplified in the retelling. People on the internet in the last umpteen years tended to replace "many" with "all".

This has not been my experience, but maybe we are not visiting the same websites. But first of all, I'm wondering – Did you read all the WEG examples I posted in the OP? Many of them have 'all Scottish/bagpipes' types of statements. That's the original telling, not retellings.

In my experience, where WEG was "all" the internet largely remained "all" or even improved to "most," and were WEG was "most" the internet remained "most." Even on Wookieepedia, which is literally just written/compiled by many "people on the internet."
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
TauntaunScout wrote:
I try to see if it makes sense when you replace a species name with "Scottish" and the job or whatever with "bagpipers". "All Scottish people play bagpipes" is ridiculous while "Many Scottish people are hired as bagpipers" is not.

That's a great general standard to go by. Thanks for sharing it.

TauntaunScout wrote:
West End's stereotyping was greatly amplified in the retelling. People on the internet in the last umpteen years tended to replace "many" with "all".

This has not been my experience, but maybe we are not visiting the same websites. But first of all, I'm wondering – Did you read all the WEG examples I posted in the OP? Many of them have 'all Scottish/bagpipes' types of statements. That's the original telling, not retellings.

In my experience, where WEG was "all" the internet largely remained "all" or even improved to "most," and were WEG was "most" the internet remained "most." Even on Wookieepedia, which is literally just written/compiled by many "people on the internet."


I am talking about the Star Wars toy collecting forums and the FFG games forums. When it comes up someone (or ones) always chimed in with "Oh no, not WEG where every member of a species is an expert at whatever we first saw them doing onscreen!".

I have not had time to specifically re-read those yet no.

WEG did give us a Rodian pacificst template, and, had a sidebar about "Aren't there any talkative scouts?" to state that these were guidelines for quickly getting your game going.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
When it comes up someone (or ones) always chimed in with "Oh no, not WEG where every member of a species is an expert at whatever we first saw them doing onscreen!".


The funny byproduct of that is that, if it were true, the OT features some of the most basic and uninteresting supporting characters in the universe. All the aliens are just typical, average members of their species. lol
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
I am talking about the Star Wars toy collecting forums and the FFG games forums. When it comes up someone (or ones) always chimed in with "Oh no, not WEG where every member of a species is an expert at whatever we first saw them doing onscreen!".

Gotcha. Some of those fans could be GMs that worsen the alien stereotypes, though probably not many are WEG GMs like us. And it is likely they aren't here to represent themselves in this discussion, but if they are they are welcome to chime in.

I was talking more about WEG and other written fluff for CT species through official publications that influence GMs. I doubt many of us here just go by alien stereotypes worsened from what was published just because Joe Fan says them on the internet.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
TauntaunScout wrote:
When it comes up someone (or ones) always chimed in with "Oh no, not WEG where every member of a species is an expert at whatever we first saw them doing onscreen!".

The funny byproduct of that is that, if it were true, the OT features some of the most basic and uninteresting supporting characters in the universe. All the aliens are just typical, average members of their species. lol

Agreed.

TauntaunScout wrote:
I have not had time to specifically re-read those yet no.

WEG did give us a Rodian pacificst template, and, had a sidebar about "Aren't there any talkative scouts?" to state that these were guidelines for quickly getting your game going.

I'm so thankful for that sidebar, but the point of that is not so much about alien species as it is about PC template personality traits which are human or without species specifics. Not quite the same thing as what this thread is about, staying with or going against species fluff. When I personally create PC templates, I do not put personality traits into the title of them for this reason. A player may like the template but want to rewrite the personality. But I do hope that sidebar has inspired gaming groups to go outside the stereotypes for individual alien characters too. In the rules it also mentions changing the species of templates when there is a species attached by default.

The Rodian Pacifist template is a good example of a minority WEG alien character going against WEG's own stereotype (although the character seems to be totally for laughs and not very useful in the game). I believe it was also WEG that later added the species fluff that Rodians love drama, but that was an expansion without undoing the original hunter stereotype.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To an extent the stereotypes are the result of dealing with a species instead of a culture, too. Human stereotypes based on one data point (with basically one exception) are less accurate than guessing. However if you tried to apply them across species? If all I knew was a species I could make some VERY broad AND accurate guesses about how that individual of horse or cat varied from a boiler-plate human.

The natural abilities of ugnaughts or rodians might come into play quite a bit in the mixed-species economy of Star Wars. Try as I might, I can never compete to do the job of a drug-sniffing dog.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TauntaunScout wrote:
WEG did give us a Rodian pacificst template, and, had a sidebar about "Aren't there any talkative scouts?" to state that these were guidelines for quickly getting your game going.

It's worth noting that WEG did poke a little fun at themselves in Heroes & Rogues by making the Rodian Pacifist template.

I wonder if we aren't judging the species/cultural stereotype trope a little too harshly. It's still possible to be relatively isolated from other cultures on our own planet, but in the SWU, planet-wide travel in a matter of minutes or hours is a real, common thing. With repulsorlifts, you don't even need airstrips to access rough terrain. And it's been this way for hundreds or thousands of years in most cases. It's not so far outside the realm of possibility that, when a planet is so interconnected, a single dominant society and stereotype could develop.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Rodian Pacifist template is a good example of a minority WEG alien character going against WEG's own stereotype (although the character seems to be totally for laughs and not very useful in the game).
CRMcNeill wrote:
It's worth noting that WEG did poke a little fun at themselves in Heroes & Rogues by making the Rodian Pacifist template.

It does do that but I doubt that was the only purpose for it. I think it is more likely that they wanted to make a comedy character for those gaming groups that would into that sort of character, because otherwise, a pacifist PC (of any species) really wouldn't that useful in any Star Wars campaign. But I guess it is possible they were like,"We need just one more template. Let's just make one that pokes fun at us." Either way, I'd really be interested in hearing if anyone actually had a player play that template.

CRMcNeill wrote:
I wonder if we aren't judging the species/cultural stereotype trope a little too harshly. It's still possible to be relatively isolated from other cultures on our own planet, but in the SWU, planet-wide travel in a matter of minutes or hours is a real, common thing. With repulsorlifts, you don't even need airstrips to access rough terrain. And it's been this way for hundreds or thousands of years in most cases. It's not so far outside the realm of possibility that, when a planet is so interconnected, a single dominant society and stereotype could develop.

Sure, isolated cultures that fulfill a type are certainly possible in Star Wars, but it is worth pointing out that every single character in the OP was seen out in the galaxy, outside of their home culture. It is not very likely for species commonly seen around the galaxy to only fulfill a stereotype.

But there is a balance available to reconcile the fluff. First of all, convert all "all" statements to "most" where "all" really shouldn't be the case. And then consider that "most" can be as low as 51%, and you've got a lot of diversity possible.
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