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Dodging and long range attacks
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Yora
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject: Dodging and long range attacks Reply with quote

So shooting at a target that isn't dodging has a difficulty based on the range of the target. Shooting at someone point blank is Very Easy, shooting at someone long range is Difficult.

If I dodge now and my result is say 15, I get a great benefit against point blank shots but actually get easier to hit by long range shots.

Is this one of the situation where the GM should bring advantage into play and set the Target Number for medium range attack at +5 above the dodge roll, and at +10 for long range attacks?
Perhaps even set it -5 below the dodge roll for point blank shots?

Seems like a workable approach to me. Or is there anything in the rules that recommends doing something else instead?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF you want to add to the diff, do a full dodge.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st edition stacked them together by default.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Dodging and long range attacks Reply with quote

Yora wrote:
...Seems like a workable approach to me. Or is there anything in the rules that recommends doing something else instead?

This seems to be an odd question so I may not be reading you. It sounds like you are saying, Is there anything in the rules from the 90s that recommend against my new proposed modification to those rules that I just stated? Well, no. The rules don't predict how they might be modified. The rules are the recommendation. But there is a rule that states GMs should modify the rules to suit their game's needs, so there's no rule against changing from the recommendation of RAW. Let me know if I am way off on your question.

Personally, I think the rule is fine the way it is. Do you have any experience with 1e? As Raven stated, it used to work with dodge adding to the difficulty number by default. I played every iteration as they came out and I am quite pleased with the evolution of the combat round, including how dodge works. Dodging possibly making it easier for an attacker to hit is part of the decision whether to dodge or not. If you think it will make it easier for someone to hit you, then don't dodge. And like garhkal said, if you want to make sure you make you don't make it easier, then full dodge is your option, to only add to the difficulty (by sacrificing doing anything else but moving).

The system used to be real bad with nickle and diming characters with MAPs, so the evolution away from that includes just deciding it would be better not to bother dodging, or to only dodge, in some cases. Like at least one iterations of the rules said, sometimes you zig when you should have zagged.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it depends on how realistic you want your game to be.

At longer ranges, a fraction of a degree can make a large miss.

I don't really agree with the "zig when you should have zagged" argument in RAW. Any move you make takes you out of the sight picture of your opponent.

At closer ranges, this means the opponent would have to make a very large correction to stay on target. At longer ranges, the slightest movement takes you way off target. At long range, even the act of pulling the trigger can spoil the shot due to the minute changes in pressure causing the barrel to change direction a little bit which translates to a large lateral distance at long range.

I do have different thoughts for combined fire, but that doesn't seem pertinent to the OP.

If I were considering the issues in the OP, I would allow the dodge to stack with the distance difficulty. Hitting a moving target that is aware of you at long range is WAY harder than "moderate" or "difficult."
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you stack it, for regular dodges, then what benefit is there for doing a Full dodge??
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Yora
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my own convenience and because I think too much granularity is pointless, I've decided that Very Easy is always a target number of 5, Easy always a 10, and so on.

The most common range for shots would be short range, so I would say that the dodge roll sets the target number for short range shots. You could add the difference in difficulty for other ranges on top of that.

Going with that, the Target Number for the attack when dodging could be "Regular difficulty -10 + dodge roll".
Or in other terms, point blank range reduces the TN by -5, medium range increases by +5, and long range by +10.

Which results in just the same numbers I proposed initially. Apparently that's how the writers got the idea to give a bonus in five point steps. It mirrors increasing the difficulty rating by one level.

Full dodge would effectively mean getting a +10 bonus to the dodge roll.
Sounds very workable to me, and very much within the original spirit of the written rules and using existing methods. I think I'll go with that for the time being.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So if you stack it, for regular dodges, then what benefit is there for doing a Full dodge??


Full reactions are a bit silly to me.

Dodge in particular. If you "full dodge" (by RAW), you can't run away or defend against some other attack that requires a different reaction skill.

But if we wanted to keep the option of some kind of "all out defense" then perhaps the rule could be as Yora suggests, or, you could just say, "defensive/reaction skills only this round--no attacks or any other non-movement actions--and you get a +10 to all reaction skill rolls."
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