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MrNexx
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 Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | IMO that depends on how free one is with credits.. |
Who needs credits when you have an astromech with a broken ethical chip? 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | IMO that depends on how free one is with credits.. |
At that point, since this hypothetical discussion would be happening during character creation, the player would know in advance that his GM was going to be stingy and not let him have a ship, so he can either accept it or pick a different template that comes with a ship.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Who needs credits when you have an astromech with a broken ethical chip? |
Astromech: "Beepboop bedoop buzzzzzz."
Owner: "What did he say?"
Protocol Droid: "Essentially, he said, 'it's against my programming to impersonate a law abiding citizen.'"
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Who needs credits when you have an astromech with a broken ethical chip? |
Astromech: "Beepboop bedoop buzzzzzz."
Owner: "What did he say?"
Protocol Droid: "Essentially, he said, 'it's against my programming to impersonate a law abiding citizen.'" |
"Q5, we need a ship. Can you call us when you find one that is available?"
"bbbbzzzztttt, quirrrrr?"
"Enough for the five of us. Red, if you can."
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | IMO that depends on how free one is with credits.. |
At that point, since this hypothetical discussion would be happening during character creation, the player would know in advance that his GM was going to be stingy and not let him have a ship, so he can either accept it or pick a different template that comes with a ship. |
It's a discussion i've had many a time with players..
"hey guys, since this will be a rebel focused game, credits are usually harder to come by, than if you went with a fringer. As such, if you do pick a template, such as one of the pilot type characters, don't think that you're gonna have a ship starting out.. Even the core smuggler is in hoc to a loan shark".
Even with it, there's still been plenty who did go the route of a pilot sort of template.
Now that doesn't mean on certain missions, the rebellion won't Provide them a ship (or two) to use, but they have to maintain it..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: |
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So, to return to our original point, you agree that there is a big difference between a ship and a lightsaber.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Yora
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I really like the idea of Smugglers starting with both a ship and a giant debt to dangerous people. It comes with its own adventure hooks.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Yora wrote: | | I really like the idea of Smugglers starting with both a ship and a giant debt to dangerous people. It comes with its own adventure hooks. |
It works well with a ship, and I think any kind of capital that big should come with a debt or some other obligation.
In general, I kinda of wish they'd set a value on how much gear you start with, just to make these kinds of discussions easy. I know you've got some range between a kid with his slingshot and fizzyglug, and a bounty hunter with his weapons, armor, and thermal detonator, but I find it easier to work when I have rules to break. It's where the nuance available to later game systems comes in handy.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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It speaks to the disparity of some Templates, too. Compare the Smuggler with the Privateer Captain; the Smuggler gets a Meh Stock Freighter and a huge debt to a Loan Shark, while the Privateer Captain gets a choice between two combat ships (one Capital, one Starfighter), both modified for piracy with ion cannon and a tractor beam, with no counterbalancing penalties. There's a definite need for an Asset/Downside system to balance that stuff out.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | It speaks to the disparity of some Templates, too. Compare the Smuggler with the Privateer Captain; the Smuggler gets a Meh Stock Freighter and a huge debt to a Loan Shark, while the Privateer Captain gets a choice between two combat ships (one Capital, one Starfighter), both modified for piracy with ion cannon and a tractor beam, with no counterbalancing penalties. There's a definite need for an Asset/Downside system to balance that stuff out. |
Privateer Captain sounds less like a template for a starting character than an aspiration, TBH.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Privateer Captain sounds less like a template for a starting character than an aspiration, TBH. |
A fair point, but the RAW doesn't make that distinction.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Privateer Captain sounds less like a template for a starting character than an aspiration, TBH. |
A fair point, but the RAW doesn't make that distinction. |
Well, it is a character aspiration in the Pirate template. The Privateer Captain template was created later for a book specifically about privateer campaigns.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | IMO that depends on how free one is with credits.. |
At that point, since this hypothetical discussion would be happening during character creation, the player would know in advance that his GM was going to be stingy and not let him have a ship, so he can either accept it or pick a different template that comes with a ship. |
It's a discussion i've had many a time with players..
"hey guys, since this will be a rebel focused game, credits are usually harder to come by, than if you went with a fringer. As such, if you do pick a template, such as one of the pilot type characters, don't think that you're gonna have a ship starting out.. Even the core smuggler is in hoc to a loan shark".
Even with it, there's still been plenty who did go the route of a pilot sort of template.
Now that doesn't mean on certain missions, the rebellion won't Provide them a ship (or two) to use, but they have to maintain it.. |
| MrNexx wrote: | | Yora wrote: | | I really like the idea of Smugglers starting with both a ship and a giant debt to dangerous people. It comes with its own adventure hooks. |
It works well with a ship, and I think any kind of capital that big should come with a debt or some other obligation.
In general, I kinda of wish they'd set a value on how much gear you start with, just to make these kinds of discussions easy. I know you've got some range between a kid with his slingshot and fizzyglug, and a bounty hunter with his weapons, armor, and thermal detonator, but I find it easier to work when I have rules to break. It's where the nuance available to later game systems comes in handy. |
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | It speaks to the disparity of some Templates, too. Compare the Smuggler with the Privateer Captain; the Smuggler gets a Meh Stock Freighter and a huge debt to a Loan Shark, while the Privateer Captain gets a choice between two combat ships (one Capital, one Starfighter), both modified for piracy with ion cannon and a tractor beam, with no counterbalancing penalties. There's a definite need for an Asset/Downside system to balance that stuff out. |
I look at all PC template equipment lists as merely suggestions for starting equipment. All starting PC equipment lists are subject to my final approval. I don't even make players buy anything before play begins - If the player can tell me a good reason why the PC should start with something and I approve it, they can just add it to their sheet for free. Character template choices should be made based on player character concepts and campaign requirements. Players should not look at PC templates as having any monetary value. The template choice should be story-based on the type of character the player wants to play. I feel players choosing a template just for the equipment and/or ship is a silly concept.
Not letting an individual PC own their own ship is not necessarily a GM being stingy because it is not forbidding the PC group from having access to a ship. This is Star Wars and the PC group needs a ship to play the game. A starship is not just a character's material possession - It is also a setting in the game and a plot device for transportation. I feel strongly that any PC group starship concept should be determined before the PCs are even made. Ships are a significant aspect of the campaign. Sure, in-universe the ship's background may include how it is owned by one of the PCs, but maybe it isn't owned by an individual because it is on loan from the Alliance. If a PC owns a ship, should it come with a debt? Sure, because that makes a more interesting story. Debts for ships are just adventure hooks. It isn't really for the sake of game balance with the PCs that don't start with ships. The entire PC group benefits from using the ship. Likewise, the ship's owner owing money for the ship is detrimental for the group. So it isn't really just one character's ship from a story perspective. The entire PC group works as a team no matter what kind of campaign it is - The PCs aren't in a business competition with each other, so I do not see any need for an asset/downside system for this.
PCs starting with starfighters seems ridiculous to me. Unless your campaign only has one or two PCs you are going to need another ship, and even if there is only one or two PCs you will not always just be able to fly a military vehicle as mere transportation to any planet and dock it in the spaceport with the freighters. In my game starfighters tend to be owned by governments and organizations, not individual citizens. And let's say you have a group that operates a freighter and a starfighter. You aren't going to be able to use the starfighter all the time, and the fighter should just be sitting in a Rebel hanger collecting dust when you are off on an adventure in the freighter? The Alliance in my game is strapped for resources so that starfighter would be used by someone else when you aren't using it. Then it really wouldn't be exclusively your starfighter anyway.
In my game all equipment is completely expendable except starships, lightsabers, and droids. Lightsabers are special and I have rarely had any PCs start with one no matter what the template says, so acquiring or constructing lightsabers is an important part of the story. And droids are supporting NPCs. These three things do get special consideration in the story. It doesn't mean they are completely protected from anything bad happening to them. It just means that their loss is an important consideration. Anything else? Don't get too attached to it because it could just be gone in the blink of an eye. I really despise materialistic player mentality. This isn't a dungeon crawl or wilderness survival type of game.
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Yora
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I feel that unlike many other RPGs, Star Wars is not really a style of fantasy that cares much about character's stuff. With the d6 system in particular, you're not going to find any unique blaster rifles +1 that deal additional fire damage or other gadgets like that.
Han has his Millennium Falcon (and other captains their own ships), which can play very big parts in the story, but I think that's about it. Han and Chewie have guns with iconic shapes, but they are identical to any other blasters of that type that come of the production lines and fill the shelves in stores all over the galaxy. Luke's lightsaber is special and an important part of his character, but that's because he's the only living Jedi in the galaxy. When there used to be thousands of Jedi in the galaxy, that lightsaber would have be indistinguishable from all the other thousands of lightsabers.
Star Wars to me is a setting where characters can just grab stuff that is lying around and fight with it for a scene, and then don't look back when it falls into a bottomless pit. You just grab another one you find lying around behind the next corner. (Which is why I think skill specialization looks like a poor mechanic.)
I am actually considering if it's even worth tracking the money that characters have and making them pay for stuff. Players doing calculations how much fuel to put into their ship so that they can still pay the docking fee and have enough left to buy food for at least a week just isn't something that I see having a place in a Star Wars adventure.
I had not really thought about characters starting the game with a ship or not. I just assumed that unless one player picks being a smuggler and starts with a ship, the group would steal a small one from some enemies they run across in the first adventure.
Having a ship to fly across the galaxy doesn't really seem like an option to me. That's something every party needs by default.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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This reminds me of Firefly/Serenity, where the ship itself was treated as a "10th character" of sorts. A supporting character, to be sure, but more than just a ship. This was carried even further in the Serenity RPG where the ship's core performance characteristics are given Attributes. That's two out of the three forms of "special equipment" (droids and ships). Of course, it's hard to see how a lightsaber could be treated as a character, but it can at least, as Whill described, be given a certain degree of plot armor.
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