| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:40 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| I don't think the dialogue writers have quite the emphasis on continuity as we fans do. Every little line isn't dissected to this degree. And frankly we don't talk in real life in a way that would maintain perfect continuity for reality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TauntaunScout wrote: | | I don't think the dialogue writers have quite the emphasis on continuity as we fans do. Every little line isn't dissected to this degree. |
Then writers should expect fan outrage when they don't emphasize continuity because: fans. They have a choice to do so or not, and they are choosing the consequences if they don't. My main purpose in this discussion has been to urge fans to try to wait until after they see it to judge how well it conforms with continuity. Anything else is prejudice.
| TauntaunScout wrote: | | And frankly we don't talk in real life in a way that would maintain perfect continuity for reality. |
And characters aren't always correct about their reality. On social media yesterday I encountered a fan that, in response to me sharing this meme, try to argue that Boba Fett was in the Sarlacc Pit for a couple years. When I said he would have died, he quoted Jabba/Threepio from RotJ saying that people experience "pain and suffering" as they "are slowly digested over a thousand years." I couldn't believe that I had to explain that Jabba was just being colorful and the Sarlacc couldn't actually keep people alive for thousand years as they were digested. But he didn't relent until I pointed out that The Mandalorian established that Coy Vance got Boba Fett's armor since soon after the Battle of Endor (which IIRC was also based on Coy Vance being correct, lol).
However, this shouldn't mean that we doubt the correctness of every statement said by any character. Vader's statement to Obi-Wan in ANH was originally straight forward to the reality Obi-Wan told Luke and we had no reason to think anything different. Then in later films Obi-Wan's statements to Luke were retconned to mean something else. We have no reason to think that the ghost of Obi-Wan's statements to Luke in RotJ were anything less than accurate reality, and this is a more unique situation in continuity because we are trying to reconcile everything with respect to long established retcons to ANH.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: | | TauntaunScout wrote: | | I don't think the dialogue writers have quite the emphasis on continuity as we fans do. Every little line isn't dissected to this degree. |
Then writers should expect fan outrage when they don't emphasize continuity because: fans. They have a choice to do so or not, and they are choosing the consequences if they don't. My main purpose in this discussion has been to urge fans to try to wait until after they see it to judge how well it conforms with continuity. Anything else is prejudice.
|
I get more annoyed about retcons like "You can quickly hyperspace anywhere from anywhere else... except when you need a McGuffin to hyperspace there" or whatever. Or new jargon like "Padawan" suddenly coming out of nowhere when it was always English words like pupil and apprentice before.
On the other hand people in emotional states making minor gaffs I don't care about. The goto example being the death star plans. Ie, "beamed to this ship" when it was actually beamed to the mothership then handed off as a disc, or "conjure up the stolen datatapes" when we know it the data was not on a tape nor was the physical media stolen, it was beamed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TauntaunScout wrote: | I get more annoyed about retcons like "You can quickly hyperspace anywhere from anywhere else... except when you need a McGuffin to hyperspace there" or whatever. Or new jargon like "Padawan" suddenly coming out of nowhere when it was always English words like pupil and apprentice before.
On the other hand people in emotional states making minor gaffs I don't care about. The goto example being the death star plans. Ie, "beamed to this ship" when it was actually beamed to the mothership then handed off as a disc, or "conjure up the stolen datatapes" when we know it the data was not on a tape nor was the physical media stolen, it was beamed. |
We were talking about a retcon that happened in the 80s. I'm glad you have no issues with it. I don't either. I also have no issue with the rest of the unrelated stuff you brought up.
Hyperspace travel uses major and minor routes, so travel is faster between systems on or close to major routes, like Tatooine and Alderaan in the first film.
It was explicit in RO that the data was beamed to the mothership and they put on physical storage. I have no issue with Vader saying the the plans were beamed to Leia's ship in light of the RO prequel, leaving out a small step of them being beamed to the big ship that Leia's ship was inside and then physically taken to Leia's ship, which then left the big ship. I believe that's the first time I've heard that complaint. "Beamed to this ship" is a minor gaff and Vader was clearly emotional when he said that to Leia, so by your own criteria this should not be an issue.
Another new one to me, the "datatapes." It looked like a disc in 1977 but Lucas still called it "datatape" for our understanding. And what makes you think it is not on some kind of Star Wars high tech version of "tape"? I see no reason to believe that it wasn't because Star Wars isn't limited to Earth limits of technology, in 1977 or today.
And as far as the datatapes being stolen, the plans were stolen and they ended up on a datatape, the current form that eluded Vader. Admiral Motti wasn't shown in RO so he may not have been at Scarif and may not have even known the specifics. But his point was to take a shot at Vader for not securing the plans by that point.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: |
It was explicit in RO that the data was beamed to the mothership and they put on physical storage. I have no issue with Vader saying the the plans were beamed to Leia's ship in light of the RO prequel, leaving out a small step of them being beamed to the big ship that Leia's ship was inside and then physically taken to Leia's ship, which then left the big ship. I believe that's the first time I've heard that complaint. "Beamed to this ship" is a minor gaff and Vader was clearly emotional when he said that to Leia, so by your own criteria this should not be an issue.
|
I don't get mad about it, but it's an example of one I've heard by people who hated Rogue One. And my not-being-annoyed-by-it is an example of why I try not to dissect the dialogue too hard. As a general thing. In real life the dialogue is often wrong. Like when people of my grandmother's age vaguely referred to all video game systems as "the Nintendo". Heck in reenacting we get so many conflicting written sources we're never quite sure if we're getting something right.
The Sequels, on the other hand seem to have made everything just a few hours away from everything else via hyperspace. And this does bug me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hope this will not be labeled a spolier in any way, I base this solely on the trailer and on canon/lore as we know it.
and I ask does the start of ANH make sense if the empire were on tatooine serching for Jedi and none other than ONO WAN was there fighting and stuff, would we not see the empire locking down the planet even more, disposing jabba even earlier if he even flinched in the "crusade against the jedi" at this time very early in the empire, the first decade or so we know that vader was manic in his hunts, and while the inquisitors did their part, vader had his chosen ones, and Obi Wan would be on top of that list.
I can only see a total planetary lockdown, a inch by inch search of the planet with any and all life expendable...it is after all obi wan.
Now given this I do wonder how they will pull it off, I am excited !!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Trailers and pure fan speculation are not spoilers.
| Mamatried wrote: | I hope this will not be labeled a spolier in any way, I base this solely on the trailer and on canon/lore as we know it.
and I ask does the start of ANH make sense if the empire were on tatooine serching for Jedi and none other than ONO WAN was there fighting and stuff, would we not see the empire locking down the planet even more, disposing jabba even earlier if he even flinched in the "crusade against the jedi" at this time very early in the empire, the first decade or so we know that vader was manic in his hunts, and while the inquisitors did their part, vader had his chosen ones, and Obi Wan would be on top of that list.
I can only see a total planetary lockdown, a inch by inch search of the planet with any and all life expendable...it is after all obi wan.
Now given this I do wonder how they will pull it off, I am excited !!!! |
Ugh, this thread has discussed this 'what if' even before the trailer. If you look closely at the trailer, it never shows Obi-Wan definitely fighting Inquisitors on Tatooine. If he was identified there, then that would blow his whole mission because Vader would wonder why he was there. It could be that another Jedi goes there completely unaware that Obi-Wan is there or even still alive. That could bring Inquisitors there, so perhaps Obi-Wan has to leave Tatooine to draw them away so they don't discover Luke there.
Remember, this is a prequel to ANH which didn't have much if any Imperial presence on Tatooine until sandtroopers were sent down to look for the droids. So it is extremely unlikely the whole planet will be locked down by the Empire in this show.
Instead of everyone worrying about this show violating film canon, can we just watch it first and give it a chance not to? If it does, we can be the judges of that after the show is done. But JJ Abrams is not running this show, so there is a chance they will be creative enough to work it out.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Falconer
Commander
Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 315
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| IIRC, other than the premiere, it will be on Wednesday. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2259
Location: Seattle, WA
|
| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Today I nerded out and calculated the actual age of Sir Alec Guinness when he filmed Star Wars (born in 1914, filmed in 1976), and the actor was 62.
Then I figured out Ewan McGregor's age during the filming of this show (born in 1971, filmed in 2021), thus he was 50.
Now that might sound like a huge discrepancy, but remember that this takes place 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, so it occurs in the year 9 BBY.
So in 9 years (from this series), McGregor will be 59. At that point he will be chronologically only 3 years younger than Sir Guinness was during the original film.
3 years isn't bad at all, though I'd submit that in 9 years McGregor will look much younger than the original actor did at that stage of his life.
_________________
Currently Running: Villains & Vigilantes (a 32-year-old campaign with multiple groups) and D6 Star Wars; mostly on hiatus are Adventures in Middle-earth and Delta Green |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cool.
| DougRed4 wrote: | Today I nerded out and calculated the actual age of Sir Alec Guinness when he filmed Star Wars (born in 1914, filmed in 1976), and the actor was 62.
Then I figured out Ewan McGregor's age during the filming of this show (born in 1971, filmed in 2021), thus he was 50.
Now that might sound like a huge discrepancy, but remember that this takes place 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, so it occurs in the year 9 BBY.
So in 9 years (from this series), McGregor will be 59. At that point he will be chronologically only 3 years younger than Sir Guinness was during the original film.
3 years isn't bad at all, though I'd submit that in 9 years McGregor will look much younger than the original actor did at that stage of his life. |
I created a character age document that tracks the character ages during films in both Legends and Canon universes (there are a handful of differences, such as Han Solo being older in Canon than Legends), and their ages in my personal timeline which adds a few years here and there. I researched and documented the actor ages for this project and also came up with 62 for Alec Guinness when he filmed ANH. Obi-Wan's age was actually the impetus for the project and me altering the timeline.
In both canons, the character of Obi-Wan is only 57 during ANH. That's too young and just doesn't work for me. But he was 25 in TPM and already late for typical human promotion to knighthood as it is, so I just couldn't imagine making him any older in TPM. I ended up adding two years to the main Clone War, making it five years in between AotC and RotS instead of only three. I added a third year to the timeline after RotS (and added some aftermath clone wars), thus making it 20 years between RotS and ANH instead of only 19, but still 19 years since "the clone wars" ended (at the same time helping the transition from the references being a singular "war" to the plural "wars" between trilogies, and making the Empire feel a bit more established by ANH). That's three additional years total between TPM and ANH to the timeline, which would make Obi-Wan 60 in ANH.
You're right, Ewan McGregor still doesn't look like he will age into Sir Alec Guinness, but you have to be able to suspend some disbelief. To help with that, I've also posited that there is a 'Tatooine Twin Suns Skin Aging Effect' going on as well. It helps explain not only Obi-Wan's aging, but also Owen and Beru. And Luke, whose CT actor is 5 years older than the actor who played his twin sister (and looks it). Mark Hamill was 30 when he filmed RotJ, but in both canons Luke was only supposed to be 23. I've added a fourth year to the timeline in between TESB and RotJ, so with the extra year after RotS that makes Luke and Leia 25 in RotJ (Carrie Fisher was 25 when she filmed RotJ). The Tatooine Suns effect and Wampa face slash are still there for the difference with Luke.
Having an extra two years both before and after RotS also preserves the symmetry of Anakin spending exactly half his life as Vader, a chronological 'balance' that was important to Lucas when he designed the film saga timeline for prequel production. I have to shift some character ages here or there, but most aren't explicit in the films and actor ages/appearance do factor into the direction I go.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10297
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TauntaunScout
Line Captain
Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 970
|
| Posted: Tue May 10, 2022 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Whill wrote: |
In both canons, the character of Obi-Wan is only 57 during ANH. That's too young and just doesn't work for me. But he was 25 in TPM and already late for typical human promotion to knighthood as it is, so I just couldn't imagine making him any older in TPM. |
This is a common problem in modern Star Wars. Part of why we liked it was because it left enough facts open ended to let us play and make things up. As more and more of those gaps get filled in it's losing it's utility for DIY hobbies and those facts are going to conflict with more and more audience members personal impressions of things in the movies.
When I was little I thought Emperor had used Sci-fi technology and the dark side to stay alive older than any real-life human has ever lived to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
