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Obi-Wan Kenobi (D+ series, original speculation thread)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
...the trailer does raise some intriguing possibilities. How does a Jedi stay hidden in a galaxy filled with injustice, when fighting against that injustice will also reveal their presence to the Inquisition?

Exactly. The tragedy of the Jedi Order is their defeat. The tragedy of Kenobi is that he can't even fight. He has to put that aside for the sake of his mission to protect Luke.

Darklighter79 wrote:
Sending an inquisitor ( or inquisitors) against one of the most powerful Jedi is not a wise decision. My guess is the hunter will stumble upon Jedi Master by accident. Obviously the pride, fueled by the Dark Side, will create a very false feeling of superiority. Then, this death rate will draw Vader's attention...

I think that is likely.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.cbr.com/obi-wan-kenobi-ewan-mcgregor-broken-faithless-star-wars/

Quote:

We find Obi-Wan at the beginning of our story rather broken," series star Ewan McGregor tells Entertainment Weekly. "And faithless, and beaten, somewhat given up.


I wonder how is his training - mentioned by Yoda in RotS - going...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I'm not going to get excited about any Disney production, but the trailer does raise some intriguing possibilities.

I'm more optimistic about this Disney production because historically, Disney prequels have been markedly superior to chronologically subsequent sequels. But that is mostly based on live action films (Solo+RO > DT). This is the first live action TV prequel, so we shall see.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
CRMcNeill wrote:
I'm not going to get excited about any Disney production, but the trailer does raise some intriguing possibilities.

I'm more optimistic about this Disney production because historically, Disney prequels have been markedly superior to chronologically subsequent sequels. But that is mostly based on live action films (Solo+RO > DT). This is the first live action TV prequel, so we shall see.


It's complicated because while the formula is correct, it's also not saying much. The sequels were just another action movie. Advertising to get you in the door to buy popcorn and soda. Like the Shaft remake or whatever.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Barbarossa41 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWTfhyvzTx0

Trailer just dropped Surprised

Thank you! I was just about to share this.

I hope I will feel differently when I see the series, but now it feels like pure fan service to put the Rebels Inquisitor character in there (cartoon fan service). I say that because, we already have so many film characters who we know can't die to maintain future continuity, so why add another villain that can't die. Hopefully Kenobi gets to kill another inquisitor along the way.


I suppose that we know that some of the Inquisitors will live (since we see them in Rebels), but I don't recall ever seeing the one played by actress Moses Ingram before. Isn't it likely that she could fall during this series?

Also, I've seen some general comments in this thread (not by you, Whill) suggesting possible multiple seasons. I believe they're billing this as a Limited Series, and I think only one season is expected.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DougRed4 wrote:
I believe they're billing this as a Limited Series, and I think only one season is expected.

That makes sense. There's only so much you can do with a man who, canonically speaking, is tied down to hiding on a single desert planet for ~18 years.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With this new planet of Daiyu described as:
Quote:
"sort of has a Hong Kong feel"
"It's got a graffiti-ridden nightlife, and is kind of edgy,"

I wonder of there's a chance for some known characters of underworld to return?
Crimson Dawn leader, who obviously has some issues with Kenobi, could run into an inquisitor or two...
Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
With this new planet of Daiyu described as:
Quote:
"sort of has a Hong Kong feel"
"It's got a graffiti-ridden nightlife, and is kind of edgy,"

I wonder of there's a chance for some known characters of underworld to return?
Crimson Dawn leader, who obviously has some issues with Kenobi, could run into an inquisitor or two...
Rolling Eyes


If you're hinting at a particular tattooed Zabrak, it's been revealed that they had plans to use Maul, but replaced him with Vader.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

Darklighter79 wrote:
This makes whole "when I left you I was but the learner" - obsolete, as this dialogue should be like "my powers have doubled, tripled, quadrupled* since our last** fight"
*, ** - depending on number of seasons and rematches of fights, rematches of rematches, etc.

The italicized above is a nonsensical statement with respect to franchise continuity. The dialogue of ANH is not going to be changed now. And I'm pretty sure this will be the only new rematch between RotS and ANH.


Meanwhile:
Obi-Wan Show Fulfills George Lucas' Final Coruscant Dream

Quote:
Lucas didn't intend to focus on characters from the prequel trilogy. Several of them were supposed to appear—there was a Darth Vader story, and another that explored Palpatine's lover, for instance—but his goal was to move away from the main Star Wars saga by focusing on background characters, ordinary men, women and aliens who lived in the galaxy and had to find a way to survive the Empire's tyranny. In contrast, Obi-Wan Kenobi is deliberately centered upon the relationship between Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan and Hayden Christensen's Darth Vader, featuring no less than two duels between the characters. While it will no doubt bring the horrors of the Dark Times to life, it will do so through very familiar eyes rather than through original characters.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My optimism is rather dampened by the reappearance of Hayden Christiansen.

We'll see. All an action movie needs to be good, is good characters and good action. Maybe a new director can make Hayden good.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
Whill wrote:

Darklighter79 wrote:
This makes whole "when I left you I was but the learner" - obsolete, as this dialogue should be like "my powers have doubled, tripled, quadrupled* since our last** fight"
*, ** - depending on number of seasons and rematches of fights, rematches of rematches, etc.

The italicized above is a nonsensical statement with respect to franchise continuity. The dialogue of ANH is not going to be changed now. And I'm pretty sure this will be the only new rematch between RotS and ANH.


Meanwhile:
Obi-Wan Show Fulfills George Lucas' Final Coruscant Dream

Quote:
There is, of course, one major difference: Lucas didn't intend to focus on characters from the prequel trilogy. Several of them were supposed to appear—there was a Darth Vader story, and another that explored Palpatine's lover, for instance—but his goal was to move away from the main Star Wars saga by focusing on background characters, ordinary men, women and aliens who lived in the galaxy and had to find a way to survive the Empire's tyranny. In contrast, Obi-Wan Kenobi is deliberately centered upon the relationship between Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan and Hayden Christensen's Darth Vader, featuring no less than two duels between the characters. While it will no doubt bring the horrors of the Dark Times to life, it will do so through very familiar eyes rather than through original characters.

I said, "I'm pretty sure this will be the only new rematch between RotS and ANH." This meaning this show. Even if there are two rematches in this show, that is not subsequent rematches between the show and ANH. This is pointless to my quote.

Also, Screenrant is clickbait garbage. The headline says "Fulfills," but the article says, "can fulfill". There is a big difference. This "article" is pure speculation about a planet in the show fulfilling concepts Lucas had for Coruscant in his never made TV series. The article is only sourced by other Screenrant articles.
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess we'll have to see and wait.

What is certain:
1) They'll both survive.
2) Vader will be still at the level of "the learner".

What's possible:
1) "When I left you(...)" will be far-fetched from the well known and plausible "When I joined Palpatine" to "When I left you after our last duel" - because as we all know Anakin was in no condition of leaving Kenobi and it was the Jedi Master who left him in RotS.

So it may be possible that Kenobi will attempt once more to turn Vader to the light side, but it will fail. And then, Vader will leave him. Maybe there will be some kind of stand-off.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darklighter79 wrote:
What is certain:
1) They'll both survive.
2) Vader will be still at the level of "the learner".

What's possible:
1) "When I left you(...)" will be far-fetched from the well known and plausible "When I joined Palpatine" to "When I left you after our last duel" - because as we all know Anakin was in no condition of leaving Kenobi and it was the Jedi Master who left him in RotS.

So it may be possible that Kenobi will attempt once more to turn Vader to the light side, but it will fail. And then, Vader will leave him. Maybe there will be some kind of stand-off.

I never thought "when I left you..." was referring to an act of Vader physically leaving Obi-Wan. That always seemed in reference to Vader leaving Obi-Wan's apprenticeship per Obi-Wan's earlier dialogue with Luke...

George Lucas wrote:
A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

Vader left Obi-Wan, the Jedi, and the light side. As I stated before, the biggest franchise discontinuity happened in the original two sequels when Vader was retconned to be Anakin, because Anakin had been described as a Jedi Knight and not a "learner" as Vader had been when he left the Jedi. So with the "truth" of these being the same character, it made the most sense that Anakin had not been a Knight for long before he left the Jedi. The PT did not contradict that, and the original EU established that Anakin had been promoted to Knight in the final year of the clone war. After Lucas' live action film saga was complete, TCW took a dump on that.

An alternate explanation I've heard was that, Obi-Wan later considered Anakin as leaving his apprenticeship and turning to the Dark Side in AotC, thus while Anakin had still technically been an apprentice of Obi-Wan. I can see that especially in light of Obi-Wan moving to Tatooine and perhaps learning about Anakin's massacre of the Tusken village. Obi-Wan would be quite horrified by that. Perhaps Vader also considers the time of AotC to be the start of his apprenticeship with Palpatine. Vader was certainly not a master of the dark side at that point, but he certainly could believe that he was by ANH, or even this TV series. This "point of view" works better with TCW.

And also like I said, it is possible that Vader may go into this thinking he is now "the master" in this series, but gets "taken to school" by Obi-Wan, again. Regardless of what happens in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series, they have a chance of at least maintaining continuity with the rest of the franchise as good as it already has, and perhaps even make it make more sense than it does now. There is no need for fans to put limits on what they can and can't do based on the limits of our own imaginations. Give them a chance to make it work, and we'll deal with afterward if they don't.

Quote:
Well, I guess we'll have to see and wait.

Indeed!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or it could be that, when he last "left" Obi-wan (i.e. at Mustafar), he was merely a learner of Sith training, but now, twenty years later, he was a master.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Or it could be that, when he last "left" Obi-wan (i.e. at Mustafar), he was merely a learner of Sith training, but now, twenty years later, he was a master.

I think Sith training makes the most sense. This whole discussion arose from this show adding more meetings of the two characters since Mustafar, but in this time period (half way between RotS and ANH), Vader could still be far from the "master" of Sith training.

And maybe this TV series will actually show Vader leaving Obi-Wan. Perhaps Vader is beaten and retreats, so in ANH he says to Obi-Wan that the last time he had still been a Sith "learner" to explain his loss, but boasts that he was now a master so it was going to end differently. (It did, but not at all like the revenge that Vader was expecting).

The show still has a chance to make it all make sense. All I'm saying is, let's all give it that chance. We'll see how they handle it.
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